Talk:Yawar Hayat Khan

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Background etc

This and several other linked articles are still being worked on by me, im sorry v slowly perhaps, due to my age and infirmity. However, i would request that I should be given a proper chance to at least add/develop these in time, and material shouldnt kindly be removed needlessly--I shall be adding adequate references as I proceed also learning editorial skills at the same time. I have now added/amended the section which was supposed to be unreferenced and I have also added a full pedigree of the Wah Khattar family of North Punjab, Pakistan, to show the subject's ethnic and familial origins and connections. I think this should be ok, thanksAsadUK200 (talk) 13:51, 7 October 2012 (UTC)AsadUK200[reply]

I must please reiterate that this is still v much an ongoing work and i shall be adding more and more references and citations as i go along AsadUK200 (talk) 13:55, 7 October 2012 (UTC)AsadUK200[reply]

Removal from article

I have just removed a chunk of stuff from the article that was sourced to a piece written by Kamran in The Nation in 1987. Anyone with experience of copyvios would instinctively recognise what this is, even without seeing the source. Thus, I have erred on the side of caution. Hopefully, someone can provide a copy of the relevant piece from 1987 and the issue can be cleared up but until then I feel it has no place here. - Sitush (talk) 16:00, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear User:Sitush, I created this article and cited from Jilani Kamran's review from 'The Nation' 1987, and I dont understand what the problem is with this please? Could you please explain? Also, the geneaology/pedigree provided has been removed from the States and Jagirs site, which gives Yawar Hyat Khan's pedigree in detail; could you also explain why? I still dont understand about some points of referencing, about how something is valid or not--although i try my best to meet standards. I would also please request you to explain to me (a) what to do in cases such as this, where Online/Net citations/references aren't so commonly available and we can only refer to earlier/older print sources? and (b) what to do in cases where some comparison is being made with some other artists and we need to establish a point about some feature that is present in another artists work which is also found in the subjects? I would be most grateful for your detailed help/guidance as I have been working for long on the article and wish to make it into a reasonably good one. many thanks, AsadUK200 (talk) 09:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)AsadUK200[reply]

There is nothing wrong with using offline sources but, like anything else, they may be challenged. In this instance, my challenge is not regarding whether the source says what was written but whether what was written was a violation of copyright. I admit that we do not usually remove on suspicion but I have explained why I did so. Did you write that bit which I removed? By which I mean, did you write it or did you copy it from the source? Could I see a copy of the source, which you presumably have access to?

Regarding the family tree, I explained to you elsewhere yesterday that the website is question has been deemed not to be a reliable source by the community at WP:RSN, a facility specifically intended to provide community assessment of sources. - Sitush (talk) 09:25, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dear User:Sitush, oh ok, i see! Regarding the site (unreliable) i appreciate your letting me know, I think you did tell me and i was confused about what it exactly refered to, or got it confused with some other article . I recollect now. As to the passage from Jilani Kamran's review/article I consulted the National Archives in Islamabad, they have big archival records of old newspapers etc, so i can get a copy for you next time i go down for research purposes. In fact, you are right, i didnt write much of the passage only paraphrased it in its main points, from the original, whilst taking down notes, is that bad/unacceptable? I didnt mean it to be, believe me; but i would appreciate if you could now guide me as to how should i go about improving the article with your help, please? Im no longer sure what is wrong or right, in the context of Wikipedia requirements, ThanksAsadUK200 (talk) 09:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)AsadUK200[reply]

No problem. You need to write content in your own words, which can sometimes be tricky for newcomers. Even a paraphrase can overstep the mark, as is discussed at WP:Close paraphrasing. Stick with it: this place has more policies and guidelines than I'll ever know but if you keep on being bold and learn from any mistakes that you might make then, honestly, you'll soon pick up the really common stuff. - Sitush (talk) 10:45, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]