Talk:Yan (Three Kingdoms)

Three Kingdoms

Something should be said about this kingdom in the parent article. Yoninah (talk) 22:53, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Yoninah, yes, and also see the Chinese Wikipedia entry for Three Kingdoms, briefly mentioning this in the lead: "... (4 countries between 237 and 238)" Eumat114 formerly TLOM (Message) 01:08, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

@Eumat114: I mean that you should add the line about it being considered the fourth kingdom in the Three Kingdoms period to the Three Kingdoms article. Readers who come to this article might wonder why it's not also mentioned there. Yoninah (talk) 10:41, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Yoninah, I have added some links, but I am a bit reluctant to add Yan Kingdom into the large systematic page and templates, especially as 1) to say that there are 4 kingdoms is (kind of) a fringe theory and 2) Yan is about 100 times less significant than the other 3 kingdoms and writing much about it would be WP:UNDUE weight. Hence I have introduced Yan in the lead, and again in the middle, but I don’t think the navboxes and the infoboxes should be modified. Eumat114 formerly TLOM (Message) 14:26, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Eumat114 what you did is great; I didn't mean for you to do any more than that. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 16:56, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 22:48, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that in the Three Kingdoms period there was a fourth kingdom called Yan Kingdom, but it was conquered just one year after its establishment? Source: Yan (燕國) was a kingdom in the Three Kingdoms period that existed from July 237 to September 238 CE in the Liaodong Peninsula.[1]... Although it existed during the Three Kingdoms period, it was not one of the three kingdoms listed (Wei, Shu and Wu); nevertheless, writers such as Kang Youwei considered as the "4th country".[2]
  • ALT1:... that the Yan Kingdom in the Three Kingdoms era led by Gongsun Yuan tried to ally Cao Wei, Eastern Wu and Goguryeo, but eventually became enemies with all of them? Source: Gongsun Yuan's actions angered both Cao Wei and Eastern Wu, and both Cao Rui and Sun Quan vowed to kill him. [3][4]...Goguryeo frequently battled with the Gongsun clan despite initial cooperation. (Gardiner 1972a : 69-70.) Extra sources: In October 232, Gongsun Yuan sent messengers accepting vassalship to Wu[5]...and Gongsun Yuan accepted vassalship to Cao Wei.[6]

• Reviewed: No QPQ needed.
• Comment: My first DYK; pls check if I am doing it right.

Moved to mainspace by Eumat114 (talk). Self-nominated at 09:07, 23 April 2020 (UTC).

• Starting review:

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - ?
• Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Thank you for this interesting and well sourced article about Chinese history! The article is new and long enough, it is free of plagiarism according to the copyvio software, it is neutral, well sourced (I hope google translate works well :-)) and has no picture and requires no QPQ. Anyway, there are some problems: first, in the ALT1 hook I don't see any citation about initial alliance with Cao Wei and Eastern Wu. Second, the article's (and ALT1 hook) English needs a going over. If you want, we can request one by the Guild of copy editors, and one of them will fix this issue. Third, I feel that in the article often is not explained the role of the main actors: there are links for them, but it would be good to explain briefly in the article which was their position and role: you have to imagine that here we write for a worldwide audience, and people from other cultures often do not know figures who are famous for their own (as an Italian I often have the same problem). Alex2006 (talk) 14:26, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Alessandro57, I don't know how to reply to a DYK but... thanks for spending your time. I'm pretty new though, so could you help me start a request? Also, I don't get what did you mean by "actors". I'm also using English as a second language, so could you please explain? Thanks, and stay safe! Eumat114 formerly The Lord of Math (Message) 15:08, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Eumat114, no problem, sooner or later each of us did his/her first DYK :-) . About the dialog, you have just to answer here, editing the template. About the request to the guild no problem, I will do for you. Maybe we have to wait a couple of weeks, but it is not a big problem. About the "actors", I mean the personalities that you cite in the article without a more precise definition. I put a clarification template near a couple of them in the article, please read my comment near the template. For example, Cao Cao, he comes suddenly in the story, who was he? Maybe you could write "Cao Cao, warlord of Wei", so an ignorant donkey ;-) like me can understand at once the context. About staying safe, I am in home office since six weeks, so maybe I am safe, but I am becoming crazy. :-( Stay Safe too, and cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm busy now but will respond probably tomorrow (it's 11pm now) Anyway cheers! :-) Eumat114 formerly The Lord of Math (Message) 15:30, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, there is no hurry, Cao Cao can wait a couple of hours ;-). Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 15:31, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

I fixed some of the wording and also supported ALT1 with more sourced statements. Wording needs a bit of fixing, but I downloaded Grammarly just for this, so how bad can it get? Eumat114 formerly The Lord of Math (Message) 01:57, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Very good the addition of sources, and thanks for the improvements.however, I would wait for the copyedit, since the problems are not (only) grammatical, but syntactical and idiomatic. After the copyedit I will give green light. :-) Alex2006 (talk) 08:14, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your request. The copy editing has been done. Alessandro57 would you please have a look? Thanks, Eumat114 formerly TLOM (Message) 03:24, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Gog the Mild, thanks a lot for your copy-editing! Eumat114, thanks for your patience!

the article is good to go! Alex2006 (talk) 05:57, 3 May 2020 (UTC)