Talk:Yamassee

This article was nominated for deletion on 8 March 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

Seems to me that the whole Washitaw Nation / Republic of Texas stuff probably should be split off into its own "Washitaw Nation" page.

comment moved from article

Derrick Sander's mother from birth lives here in Philadelphia,Pennsylvania.He was just here last year visiting his ailing mother, therefore this seems to me like another attempt by the nuwaubian counterfeiters to tie themselves in with someone who alraedy has some historical lineage,hoping to benefit from the prosperity of others.

Yamasee Native American

It seems to any reasoning knowledgable fact finder, one would research the answers and the questions. The Commander and chief of the Yamassee Native Americans and the United Nation of Nuwabian are a seperate entity one being a religious group who are the FOLLOWERS of Dr. York, and The Yamassee Native are not a religious people their nation consist of millions of nationals in the United States and across the Americas.

This page to be a stab at the Federally Recognized Nation of Indigenous people, [all one needs to do is to read Lewis and Clarks Expiditions with photos] research the yamassee war and the discription of the people. It seems that only close minded individuals who cannot get pass skin color would state repeatedly [Black] a legal status not a nationality. Stop labeling it time for "change", The Chief of the Yamassee did not suffer from an indictment for tax evasion, There are also treaties of peace and friendship with the Washitaw Nation, as well as Federal documents that are in fact Valid with seals that the Governor now want to regret he gave, which are legally sound with other federally documented records with the highest authentication recognition[3].

Let's just all live as one family in true reality that The Indigenous Aboriginal people were Various Copper Colored found in the Northern Hemisphere by the Europeans when they arrived were dark dravidian type and this definitions comes from 1832. Let drop the hate and wake up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.158.225.112 (talk) 15:54, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Significant revert and protection

I would like to say that I just reverted to an older version as the past several edits were all vandalism. I'm going to move that we add the pp-semi-vandalism box and get this page protected from editing by anonymous IP addresses. --Pstanton 05:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I've listed this article on Requests for page protection --Pstanton 06:04, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Assessment

I am assessing this article as Start class for now, but it could easily be moved up to C-class with only a small amount of work...

Infobox - Infoboxes are almost standard anymore... check out {{Infobox Micronation}}...
In-line references - I notice that there are some links added throughout the article, it would be better if someone could change these into in-line refs, WP:REF can help with this...
Images - The old saying "a picture is worth a thousand words" still rings true today... try to find some that have either been released to the public domain, or otherwise fall under WP:FAIRUSE...

Feel free to let me know if you need help with anything... good luck, and happy editing... - Adolphus79 (talk) 23:53, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After reading this article again, I have decided to remove the WikiProject Micronations banner... as this article sits now, it is not about a micronation, but more about a group of people... there is a mention of micronationalism, but until that section is expanded, I do not believe this article falls under the Project's scope... If, in the future, the details of the micronation itself are expanded (or an article is written about the nation itself), let me know (or anyone at the project) and I will be more than happy to re-assess... - Adolphus79 (talk) 04:37, 26 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV tag

Can someone explain why there is a NPOV tag on the article? --Pstanton (talk) 21:58, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

certain little phrases throughout the article that I think are not as neutral as they could be... such as...

is attempting to fill the power vacuum left after the arrest and conviction of Dwight York
Derrick Sanders's “Yamassee Native Americans” are not that group but are
York’s other attorneys were loath to risk the wrath of the court
the Nuwaubian “nation” seems to be splitting up, with various of its sub-factions trying to set the agenda and take over for the leadership vacuum

among others... also, with most of the article discussing York's court case, and a very small amount about the subject of the article (the group), it fails WP:UNDUE, which is part of WP:NPOV... - Adolphus79 (talk) 23:14, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I get a similar feeling while reading that material, but I think it may be a slow process to actually achieve an overall "balance" in things like tone, at the moment, I'd just like to see some appropriate and reliable referencing in place, it'd be a good start in my opinion. I think it's important at this point that all editors keep in mind that Wikipedia articles are not to be used as vehicles to either promote a particular ideology, nor used to "bash" it either. I've watched many religion articles about more 'obscure' belief systems crash and burn over time in Wiki because there actually *weren't* enough reliable secondary sources available to even support their existenece as articles, I'd say this subject is relatively well served in that department. As I've said elsewhere, it's question of whether or not there are editors willing to devote the time to do the required work and put together something that's properly backed up AND neutral. cheers Deconstructhis (talk) 00:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Adolphus on points 1 and 4. They do appear somewhat biased, but I think 2 is fine and I think 3 is somewhat reasonable.

About 2, considering "Yamassee" is very close in spelling to "Yamasee" there is often confusion and editors and readers often think this article is referring to what is a legitimate Native American tribe, because they didn't notice the slightly different spelling.

And point 3, a brief look through the transcript of the hearing shows that York's lawyers definitely were unhappy with York's persistent interruptions, which were out of order and over time caused the judge to become irritated with the defense. I think it is reasonable to state that York's lawyers were nervous about the judge being angry, considering the judge eventually told the lawyers to stop wasting his time with BS that had no relevance to the hearing anyways. The language of the statement is a bit.... ornate. "Loath to risk the wrath" could probably be changed to something like "didn't want to try the Judge's patience" or some such. I actually believe the judge told York's lawyers that if the defense made another wild claim to sovereignty out of order, in a hearing in which the court's jurisdiction wasn't under discussion, he'd find them in contempt of the court or some such. --Pstanton (talk) 21:12, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

well, that was basically my point... the wording was a little POV... Firstly, the group is not Sander's, Sander is just the one that took over leadership when York went to jail. And as far as bullet three, it was the "were loath to risk the wrath" part that bothered me... it could have been written a lot more neutrally. I did a good bit of POV cleanup on the article before catching on to all of the inaccuracies... At this point, we'll have to see what the outcome of the AfD is, but I don't think this article will be around much longer anyway... - Adolphus79 (talk) 21:17, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

AFD

After trying to cleanup the article and do research, this article seems to be comepletely incorrect, biased, and lacking on major parts of the history/story... according to this news story, the Southern Poverty Law Center lists the "Nuwaubian nation" as a hate group, due to York's preaching of black supremacy and hatred. And that since his conviction (77 counts of child molestation, child exploitation, tax evasion, and racketeering), the size of the group has "dwindled"... it seems to be more of a cult than anything else, with York having only a very small following... It seems that the group was originally called "The United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors", then changed their name to "The Yamassee Native Americans of the Creek Nation" after the court case. All of their property was siezed by the feds, and all that remains are a couple fanatical followers, a website, and a small bookstore... I can't seem to find any information about Sanders other than his run-in with the Justice Department, and I can't seem to find any sources on the group that aren't stories about York with mere mentions of his "cult"... according to MSNBC, "the cult was used for his sexual pleasure and financial gain, including recruiting members to groom children for sex with him." This seems to be a very small group of people who still follow York, and do not seem to pass notability concerns as a group. I think enough of the story and information is covered in York's article, that this article should either be deleted, or redirected to either York's article or Yamasee...

MSNBC - Georgia cult goes quiet after leader jailed
G-news search for "Derrick Sanders" (most about an actor with the same name)
G-news search for "Yamassee Native Americans" (all 12 hits of it, most about either Sanders case, or York's cult falling apart)

- Adolphus79 (talk) 04:09, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After thinking about it further, I am going to take it to AfD to gain a consensus on what should be done... - Adolphus79 (talk) 04:37, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a good candidate for AfD. Don't inflict it on true Native Americans by any redirect to Yamasee Indians.--Parkwells (talk) 16:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

The result of the AfD was to merge this article with Nuwaubianism, and to make this page a disambig for Nuwaubianism / Yamasee... Discussion is here... - Adolphus79 (talk) 17:32, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That is dishonest, or, charitably, inaccurate. The result of the AFD for Yamassee was keep with an encouragement to discuss possible merges on its talk page. -— (talk) 18:11, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reply and discussion here... - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:28, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]