Talk:Yacht/Archive 1

Archive 1

Unit Error

It states in the second paragraph "Yacht lengths generally range from 20 feet (13 m) up to hundreds of feet". 20 feet is most definitely not 13 m. I presuming this has been corrected from 40ft. I agree 20ft is a reasonable lower bound for a yacht, so I shall replace 13m with 6m. Any objections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.36.29.1 (talk) 00:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Front material

I changed back to "A yacht was originally defined as a light, fast sailing vessel used to convey important persons" from "A yacht was originally defined as a light, fast sailing vessel used boat" because the editor was careless in the edit, and also because I'm not entirely sure if the "used to convey important persons" is invalid; in my experience the term "yacht" is generally most strongly associated with large pleasure vessels, which implies owners of some significance (importance or at least wealth). scot 14:14, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

I think you must be psychic, Scot, or at least have a good instinct for smelling out the phony. The term yacht comes from a specific historical incident detailed in Antonia Frazer's excellent chronicle "Royal Charles", which, if you start, you won't be able to put down. The yacht was first used to carry Charles II across the channel to be in time for Restoration Day. Since then it always has carried important persons whether for business or pleasure. The idea that a yacht was originally a fishing or commercial vessel is total hoak, someone's bad guess. Everyone makes mistakes, including yours truly. Anyway I have restored the historical restoration.Dave 15:53, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

No, it isn't right now. Yacht is named yacht because it was a "pursuit" vessel. It use to convey important persons has nothing to do with it. That came after Charles II selected it for the restoration voyage. Charles II is the man who made yacht a yacht. He was a boating enthusiast and patron. What happened to the nice painting of the pursuit ship that I had in there? What happened to Charles II? Did no one read Antonia? So, I'm changing it back for accuracy. Have you not asked why "hunt" was used? Did you imagine important persons used a vessel instead of a horse to hunt foxes? Changing it for historicity.Dave 10:55, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

PS Your so-called "careless editor" is actually a vandal and that meaningless sentence represents vandalism. Why substitute a meaningless grammatical sentence for a meaningless ungrammatical one? At least in the latter case we have an inkling that it is wrong.Dave 11:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I plan to return to this article (and many others on nautical history and terminology) later, but I must point out that according to several sources I've consulted (The Yachts from the Time-Life The Seafarers series; Ab Hoving, Ships of Abel Tasman; George Keyes, Mirror of Empire), yachts were the preferred conveyance of anyone of sufficient means from the late 16th century onward in the Netherlands. Charles II only popularised sailing in England; it was a habit well entrenched in Dutch society for a full generation before his flight to the Continent.Chang E 03:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Gen. complaint

From Wikipedia:General complaints...

This is a not a complaint; it is a suggestion. The very essence of a yacht is that it sails. Your Home page for 'yacht' has three photos of vessels, not one of which is under sail. For the benefit of your young or non-english speaking researchers, I suggest a photo of a yacht actually sailing would be an improvement of your encyclopedia. Cheers, Peter.

It's a good point. I guess a yacht under sail is moving and hence harder to photograph, but I'm sure there's a Wikipedian out there who is up to the task.--Commander Keane 10:55, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

FALSE, the «very essence» of yacht is pleasure, sail is an older understanding because the first motor vessels didn't do pleasure--Tallard 00:14, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Notes from Doug Norton

user:Plcsys I am not comfortable with the assertion that the essence of a yacht is that it sails. Please refer to the definitions listed below.

various definitions of the word "yacht"

The American Heritage dictionary defines a yacht as:

Any of various relatively small sailing or motor-driven vessels, generally with smart graceful lines, used for pleasure cruises or racing.

ETYMOLOGY: Probably obsolete Norwegian jagt, from Middle Low German jacht, short for jachtschip : jagen, to chase (from Old High German jagn) + schip, ship

Webster defines yacht as: (http://www.webster-dictionary.net/definition/Yacht)

Definition of Yacht

Pronunciation: yǒt n. 1. (Naut.) A light and elegantly furnished vessel, used either for private parties of pleasure, or as a vessel of state to convey distinguished persons from one place to another; a seagoing vessel used only for pleasure trips, racing, etc.

both of these are direct cut and paste from the web

And finally from MSN Encarta yacht

yacht [ yot ]

noun (plural yachts)

Definitions:

1. sailboat: a sailboat, often one that has living quarters and is used for cruising or racing 2. motorboat for cruising: a large motorboat used for cruising

So it seems that the definition includes sailing and motoring vessels that are used exclusively for pleasure. There is an implied meaning that the vessel is one that is of a size that is more or less permanently in the water, and not of the type that can readily be loaded onto a trailer for casual movement from one aquatic location to another.

Hi Doug. Partridge on the etymology: Yacht anglicises D jacht ... cf MD jachtschip. All that other etymology you gave is true is far as it goes but our yacht is the Dutch branch rather than the Norwegian. That is because Charles II returned to Britain in a Dutch jachtschip.Dave 16:41, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Yacht vs. motoryacht

I think the big difference between sailing and motor yachts is summed up in the Encarta definition. Focus on the essence:

1. sailboat: a sailboat, often one that has living quarters and is used for cruising or racing 2. motorboat for cruising: a large motorboat used for cruising

A sailboat of any size can be a yacht--generally it's restricted to racing boats or cabin boats, so a Sunfish (dinghy) wouldn't be considered a yacht, but my 13' Guppy cabin cruiser, while shorter than a Sunfish, is legitimately a yacht. For motor vessels, size matters. A motoryacht is big enough to have a cabin, and the term implies luxury along with size. Since the two definitions are so different in scope, I think the thing to do might be to split the article into "yacht" and "motoryacht" sections, and discuss the different shades of meaning between sail and power in the intro. scot 17:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Modern yachts are descendants of working vessels

No, that is just what they are not. A fishing vessel? A commercial vessel? All I can say is, stop your guessing. If you don't know, don't put it in. I'm not going to take the paragraph out, as it isn't clear in what context it is intended. You might argue that modern yachts were influenced by such vessels. I doubt it. Do kings and queens go around in fishing vessels? What on earth would they do on a commercial vessel? As for the tall ships, they are strictly a phenomenon of the late 20th century. Why would you call a clipper ship or a cargo ship a yacht? Gee whiz. How about taking out that paragraph.Dave 05:53, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the paragraph (it did smell fishy). When we get some sources we can add it back in.

Modern yachts are descendants of working vessels used for fishing and commerce. Famous examples of these types of vessels are fishing schooners such as Bluenose and square rigged tea clippers of the 19th century such as Flying Cloud. Tall ships are the modern descendants of the tradition of these commercial vessels.

--Commander Keane 16:02, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks commander. I don't think you'll be adding it back in. Incidentally such a nice topic should have more references. I left a space for them. People like to read about boats.Dave 16:29, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Daysailers as yachts

This article says that yachts are sailboats over 20ft in length, but it also lists daysailers as a type of yacht. This leads to some confusion. I understand that there are varying definitions of the word "yacht", but this article should try to be consistent (or at least clearly explain the inconsistencies). By broadest definition all pleasureboats are yachts, but most people think of larger pleasure boats when they use the term.

On a different note, the terms motor yacht and motoryacht both redirect to this article, but this article primarily addresses sailing yachts only. JHP 16:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem is there isn't a good definition of "yacht". The Encarta definition is pretty close to what I see as common usage; any sailboat can be considered a yacht, but only large motor vessels are considered yachts. I have a 13' cabin sloop that I'd call a pocket yacht or pocket cruiser, because it does have provisions for overnighting (I know a guy who has spent several days cruising lakes in the same model boat). On the other hand, I'd not call a Sunfish a yacht, though Sunfish racing is controlled by by yachting organizations. In fact, there are many daysailers and open cockpit racers over 20' (take for instance the Dragon class), I'm not sure I'd consider them to be yachts either, but they are still used in the sport of yacht racing, so I guess that means technically they are yachts.

The article is very light on motoryacht information. The one blurb about the Wally 118 (now gone) could probably be resurrected as a mention in a section on motoryachts (while only a prototype, it is a high profile one). The tricky bit is coming up with a source that will define where a motorboat or speedboat becomes a motoryacht. Do you base it on length, displacement, cabin, cost? Are cigarette boats yachts? What about hydroplanes--are motorboat races considered "yacht races"? Let me know what you think and we can figure out what needs to be added. If the section on motoryachts turns out to be substantial enough, maybe it should be a separate article? scot 18:19, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I've noticed that powerboat manufacturers often start referring to their boats as yachts at 35ft LOA (excluding bow pulpit and swim platform) and above. Similar powerboat designs in the 25ft - 35ft LOA range tend to be called cruisers. Sea Ray, for example, classifies their powerboats as follows:

• Sport Boats (17' - 29')
• Sport Cruisers (24' - 34')
• Sport Yachts (36' - 48')
• Yachts (50' and up)

Personally, I've always thought of pleasureboats as yachts once they have a cabin, a birth, and a galley. (That may not always count as a yacht, but according to U.S. tax law it counts as a home.) JHP 00:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

As has been pointed out, the line between "I have a boat" and "I have a yacht" is more than a little ambiguous. From personal experience around a number of West Coast (US) marinas (I've had a number of sailboats from 14' (1st) to 42' (current) over the years), the line seems to be around 35 feet for either sail or power. There also seems to be a cultural aspect to calling a particular vessal a 'yacht'. Some implied element of style, along with some level of interior appointment. An older, well maintained, small wood boat is more likely to be called "A proper yacht" than a modern raceboat of the same size. But I've never known anyone to refer to a daysailor or dinghy as a "yacht" no matter its size.

This is opinion of course, and I'm not making any edits based purely on my opinion. But there's a lot of places in the article that are ambiguous, or just poorly written.

Bagheera 18:55, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

popular yachting locations

any oblections to adding the ionian sea into the popular yachting locations? it's overflowing with yachts every summer and a large number of tour operators offer yachting packages there --1Rabid Monkey 14:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I am removing the entire section. Its a mess, at least one location is listed twice, more then one location is certainly not a popular yachting location, another is simply a mention of a youth sailing program and to make a comprehensive list of "popular" locations would warrent its own article which would in itsself be a mess. The only way this section would work and warrent inclusion is as a regional thing, "Mediteranian", "US East Coast", etc.. which by the time it was done would include much of the world, so just leave it out I think, serves no purpose. Russeasby 04:16, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

So many individual pages !

There is no reason for there to be so many different pages under see also! Around half of them could and should be merged into yacht...--Tallard 12:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Classic Yachts not mentioned

I have recently done a number of translations on CLASSIC YACHTS (i.e. older and historic yachts restored typically at great expense). I think it might be worthwhile to at least mention these boats, if only for the fact that some of them embody the original spirit of yachting. Greetings from Germany. Reinhard —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.42.100.32 (talk) 15:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

S/Y

... redirects here, but isn't explained. Thanks, Maikel (talk) 12:41, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Super- bigger than Mega- ?

In the introduction, the article states that Mega yachts are smaller than Super yachts. This seems absolutely contrary to what I would have thought. Is this really how things are described in yachting circles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.34.60 (talk) 00:21, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Trying to remember the name of a Yacht?

They are not made anymore, I believe it stopped in the 60's. Has a name/make that sounds german or english. Driving me crazy. Thanks, Gary  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.9.30.84 (talk) 14:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC) 

simply wrong

There is so much misinformation on this page it is ridiculous, starting with the first statement. A yacht is a private vessel with living accommodations, a day-sailor may or may not fit this description, a dinghy is NEVER a yacht, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.228.91.41 (talk) 16:09, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

How about defining the boats as 'large pleasure vessels' which gets around the 'private' trap as well as the 'dinghy' trap. 86.155.131.157 (talk) 18:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

There are very few references, so most of the text is probably by individual authors describing their impressions, perhaps backed up by random sources with unknown quality. The dinghy thing is from trying to describe boats for day sailing in a section on "day sailing yachts".

Without good sources we have the problem that the context is vague. Something that might be correct in the Great Lakes is not necessarily true by the Irish Sea.

--LPfi (talk) 10:26, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

The base problem here is that there is no standard definition of a yacht. I assume that all yachts have sail/wind as their primary means of propulsion (as opposed to motor yachts, steam yachts etc use engines as their primary means of propulsion). I assume that a yacht may not necessarily have a cabin. Then the big problem is how small does a yacht have to be before it is no longer a yacht? Some would say that a yacht must also be a monohull and hence a catamaram can never be a yacht irrespective of size. Boatman (talk) 16:41, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder comes to mind. You can only go so far in the English language.86.155.131.157 (talk) 18:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I suppose there is some decent definition somewhere in a good source. We could have an overview of other definitions, but state that for the purpose of this article we use the one chosen definition.

An other approach is to think about what we want from this article and state such scope in the beginning (with a disambiguation link). There is also e.g. yachting, yacht racing and cruising on one hand and trailer sailers, daysailers, and luxury yachts on the other, which cover or could cover much of the same territory. Similar articles could be written for things we do not want to include here.

Some coordination is needed. Is there some good place for that discussion? Wikipedia:WikiProject Sailing does not have yacht cruising in its declared topic, but that is the most relevant project I can find. Is there a WikiProject:Boats?

--LPfi (talk) 10:39, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Definitely should come under Wikipedia:WikiProject Sailing. I would prefer that we find a decent definition of 'yacht' before we start the ball rolling re content of the article. Unless we search out a good (and possibly open) definition then the article discussion will get bogged down in opinions relating to the base definition. Even then there will be differences of opinion ref what constitutes a yacht. Do you agree?? Boatman (talk) 14:14, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Probably you are right. I doubt there is any definite definition, so choosing one is also about preferences about what to write on. But that should be done with a feeling for the word that I, with English as a foreign language, do not have (there are seldom exact synonyms across languages). I hope you can come up with something. --LPfi (talk) 15:41, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The pronunciation [yat] is either wrong, or assumes an American accent. [yot] would be accent-independent. Any objections to changing this? 193.113.37.7 11:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)--115.66.76.40 (talk) 06:39, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

correct, I work in the biz and it is «yot», however I don't know much about these phonetics codes so I can't say.--Tallard 12:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Surprises me first two pictures are motor boats

To me yacht primarily means sailing boat with a keel (as oppose to a dinghy), except in the context of tabloid journalists who generally use the term to mean a large motor vessel with "celebrities" lounging on deck. Is this a British/Commonwealth versus US English distinction? In any case it makes sense to me to start the article with a picture of a sailing yacht! Billlion (talk) 09:24, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Database reference

It appears the section doesn't have a link to a proper section where the reader can then go to search for more yachts. Can I add yachtharbour.com to external links to make it available ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by EmpoweredInc (talk • contribs) 19:25, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Green-Motion propulsion mention

The mention of green motion propulsion appears to be a marketing passage and should be removed. 2602:252:D5E:A550:A07D:9B1:EDB9:7D27 (talk) 02:48, 4 April 2015 (UTC)Tom

I agree..45Colt 05:05, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Steam yachts, etc

For some time, steam yachts with auxiliary sail power were in vogue, late 19th Century. A large number of them were converted for use by the US Navy during the Spanish-American war, a few with some distinction. Many of the vessels were well over 200 feet in length, I believe one over 300ft. This doesn't match the description of a yacht by this article (not surprising, really, since it mostly focuses on multiple modern definitions of "yacht"). It mentions MOTOR yachts, but not steam. The only thing it says about steam is that "with the appearance of steamboats, 'yacht' came to refer to sail-powered vessels", which obviously is not true of the large number of steam powered "yachts" in service during this period. There is a whole chapter devoted to them in the book I'm reading (although it mostly focused on their service, which isn't relevant to this article), so clearly, steamboats CAN be "yachts", and most of these are much larger and follow much different design philosophy than any listed here. As far as I can tell, the only part where they fit in is that they were private vessels before the Navy requisitioned them...but they were still called "yachts" on the Navy lists, so apparently a "yacht" isn't ALWAYS a private vessel, simply BUILT for that purpose..45Colt 05:14, 23 November 2015 (UTC)