Talk:Yachad (political party)

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Far-right

The term far-right should be in the party description as numerous reliable sources describe it as such. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 13:08, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't deny that, but that's not the issue. I'm not sure you're understanding it. This was the result of a political alliance that was formed between one party (ultra-Orthodox) and another (far right)—an alliance that no longer exists. (This article is only about the first one.) This is VERY clearly expressed by the sources used. The sources you use above ALL refer to Yachad AFTER it had formed a joint list with Otzma (i.e., together, not separate, it is far right). This article is about Yachad only. None of them refer to Yachad's ideology/political position BEFORE it had united with a far-right party. Confusing the two is inaccurate. That is why I explained clearly in the body of the article that Otzma is a radical right-wing party. --Precision123 (talk) 17:21, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yishai and the Yachad he founded has been described as far-right. See: Channel 1: Eli Yishai's far-right Yahad faction passes minimum vote threshold, and Far-right Yishai vows a vote for him helps PM. These are clearly references to Yishai and the party he founded. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 18:15, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Again, these are all referring to the list with Otzma (i.e., Yachad+Otzma), not the Yachad party alone. Sources clearly show that alone Yachad, as founded by Yishai, is an ultra-Orthodox party that later united with a far-right party[7][8][9][10][11][12] and that this alliance was temporary.[13]The difference made is clear.

There is a difference between treating the two parties separately (as these articles treat them) as opposed to together. We should not confuse the two. In any case, I just inserted a compromise. Let's let it be and move on. Thank you. --Precision123 (talk) 18:29, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The articles I referenced are not referring to the joint list, but to Yachad. They clearly name Yachad as far-right, it is original research to conclude otherwise. We must write the articles based on what reliable sources. Multiple reliable sources (see above) depict Yachad as far-right, as such the article must show this. Also, Yishai is described as far-right and he is the party founder, so it is not a mimic of Shas by any measure. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 22:13, 10 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Ism schism: Hi. You can always put in the point/s you are trying to make by inserting a separate/new "Controversy" (sub-) section into the article citing the sources you mention about Yachad being "far right" but it should also note that such criticism comes from the anti-religious secular and far-left sectors and sources such as Ynet (the online service of Yediot Ahronot) and Haaretz that are known bastions of extreme socialist and leftist opinion in Israel. In fact Yishai is regarded as a moderate for his ability to unite with the "less Haredi" people (meaning in many ways, "less religiously observant than the Haredim") from the Religious Zionist sector. It is perhaps only politically true to say they are "far right" while religiously they share much with the "left" meaning the more Modern Orthodox sectors. There is a lot of subtlety here that outsiders may miss, so proceed with great care in this complex subject. Blind determination may be very counterproductive sometimes in arriving at a fully objective description and explanation of political reality. Sincerely, IZAK (talk) 04:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Proceeding with care is just the point. Unfortunately Ism schism is not getting it, and I wish the editor would consider the compromise. Ism, any passing description of the Yachad list post-merger is a reference to a list that includes Otzma. (Noting that the list happens to be headed by Yishai does not separate it from the Otzma faction. This report refers to Yishai's Yahad as the successor party to Otzma LeYisrael. Without the Otzma faction on the list, is it? Of course not.

If you want to treat Yachad and Otzma alone, then see sources that treat them alone. Not one of those sources mentions the difference between the two parties that make up the Yachad list. On the contrary, reliable sources describing Yachad separately from Otzma describe it as ultra-Orthodox, and Otzma as far right.[14][15][16][17][18][19][20]

If the far-right position were so clear/NPOV, then why don't any sources use it in describing the party before Otzma was added? Political alliances are not permanent, so we must exercise care when describing one party alone. --Precision123 (talk) 05:19, 11 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Some scholarly sources describing the two: (1) Yachad (ultra-Orthodox, right wing); (2) Otzma (radical right)