Talk:X-parameters

Jan

Hi Jan, Thanks for your edits, especially the early references Woz2 (talk) 21:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Snottywong

Hi Snottywong, thanks for tagging this article. X-parameters are a significant development in electronic engineering but you are right to mention that Jan and Agilent are leading the way here. We need some COI-less contribution from the small intersection of engineers that are both X-parameter savvy and wikipedians. Any takers? Woz2 (talk) 00:54, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Liv2cod

How are "X-parameters are open and documented" when the link takes you to an Agilent page that has no technical detail and states:

"In some cases licensing of the X-parameters brand and technology is also possible. Given the rapidly developing state of the technology, as well as finite resources, Agilent currently can provide additional support only to key customers and strategic partners whose efforts are focused on improving the technology."

64.201.244.130 (talk) 17:47, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

The page gives explict instructions Several IEEE papers which discuss the technology and its application can be found by visiting IEEE Explore [sic] and searching for X-parameters Woz2 (talk) 03:09, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately the papers you get from a search of Xplore are not very good at defining X-parameters as it is very unclear how they differ from the PHD model. Earlier this year I got in touch with Agilent and was told that a good definition of X-parameters was in the Dec 2008 edition of Microwave Engineering Europe and that essentially X-parameters and the PHD model are the same although Agilent use X-parameters with only 1 or 2 (A11 & sometimes A21) large signals.

So my understanding of this is that:

• The general case would be that every output B term depends non-linearly on every input term - this is the PHD model
• The simplest case would be that the Bs only depend linearly on the As - this is the S-parameter model
• If the A11 term (normally dominant) (and possibly some others such as A21 etc) is allowed to have full non-linear interactions with the other tones and all the other tones behave linearly on their own - this seems to be the X-parameter model. JMiall₰ 13:43, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

This page is for discussion of the how to improve the article, not a discussion about X-parameters per se. A more appropriate forum for discussing X-parameters themselves is http://forums.tm.agilent.com/community/viewforum.php?f=72 Thanks! Woz2 (talk) 17:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm unsure what your point is here. I'm pointing out that if you do what the Agilent source says you don't actually get a good definition of what X-parameters are, suggesting a better source and also suggesting how X-parameters relate to the PHD model.

How is talking about the reliability of sources and mentioning information that probably should be in an encyclopedic article on the subject not relevant to the talkpage? JMiall₰ 21:46, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm just saying that if you want to move the ball forward, this probably isn't the best place to do it. If what you've found isn't WP:OR then please go ahead and add the reference. If you have some pieces that need an OR synthesis in a research paper then wikipedia isn't the place. hth Woz2 (talk) 12:54, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Every science talk page needs to have free discussion of the content of the subject, including discussion on what the papers say and whether it makes sense. What goes into the article is another matter -- it is tightly controlled, but must b based on an open discussion. Don't try to restrict other people's thinking, it will just degrade the quality of the output. 178.39.122.125 (talk) 10:26, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Theory

It would be valuable with more text about the theory behind X-parameters. Otherwise, this page is just about a marketed product, which perhaps shouldn't be regarded as notable. It is not necessary that the theory is explained on this page; if not, there should be a link to a page about the theory. Are there other sources on the theory besides Jan Verspecht and David E. Root? --HelgeStenstrom (talk) 08:13, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

The article cites several technical papers by Root and Verspecht and a way to search IEEE Xplore. Please add others you find. X-parameters are notable, but I agree the page needs work. Please help by improving it! Cheers! Woz2 (talk) 03:06, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Superset

I corrected the amusing misuse of the phrase "mathematical superset". 178.39.122.125 (talk) 10:20, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

References

This reference contains the verification that X-parameters are the same as the "Poly-Harmonic Distortion (PHD) model".

"X-parameters, also referred to as the parameters of the Poly-Harmonic Distortion (PHD) nonlinear behavioral model, have been introduced as the natural extension of S-parameters to nonlinear devices under large-signal drive."

X-Parameter Measurement and Simulation of a GSM Handset Amplifier

Jason M. Horn#1, Jan Verspecht*2, Daniel Gunyan#3, Loren Betts#4, David E. Root#5, and Joakim Eriksson†6

#Agilent Technologies, Inc., Santa Rosa, CA, 95403, USA
jason_horn@aglent.com, daniel.gunyan@agilent.com, loren_betts@agilent.com

*Jan Verspecht, b.v.b.a., Opwijk, B-1745, Belgium
contact@jan_verspecht.com

†Sony-Ericsson Mobile Communications AB, Nya Vattentornet, Lund, SE-221 88, Sweden 6
joakim.eriksson@sonyericsson.com

178.39.122.125 (talk) 10:39, 29 January 2017 (UTC)