Talk:Wurundjeri

Rewrite

I did a major rewrite of this article, add images, created a map of Kulin nation alliance, however it needs more references. The further info provided in the history section is much appreciated, but please remember to check your spelling and grammar. I will copyedit once the recent contributions settle a bit. Nick carson (talk) 03:24, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Nick, the map of the Kulin alliance was great, and I can see you are fixing up some of my typos and occasional poor grammar and wikilinking. The article is starting to cover it's subject in depth. I'd like to get it up to Good Article status. Maybe it could even make it as a featured article. I have also been adding substantially to the other Kulin nation articles. More work needs to be done on gatherings, corroborees, tanderrums, mythology and creation stories, and I hope to contribute some of this in coming weeks. --Takver (talk) 08:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Indeed! I've been meaning to get in touch with the Wurundjeri Elders Council and ask them about place names and all sorts of random things. It'll happen eventually. Nick carson (talk) 05:41, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Australian Aboriginal Flag.svg

The image File:Australian Aboriginal Flag.svg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --14:20, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

This is ridiculous, stop wasting our time FairuseBot. Nick carson (talk) 05:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

total popuation

100,000,000,000,000,003 would seem to be a bit on the high side, as it exceeds the total population of the earth by several orders of magnitude. Snertking (talk) 01:15, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Clarity and language

There is a bit of recent editing to the article which makes it a lot unclearer to a non-specialist reader (and surely WP is aimed at non-specialists). I think it is coming from the idea that there were multiple Woiwurrung clans (including the Wurundjeri-willam). However, it's also general practice (as I understand it) to use Wurundjeri as a general term for Woiwurrung-speaking people (particularly when the individual clan isn't known) and that Wurundjeri is also the term used for present day descendents of all Woiwurrung clans. If that's right, how can we make the article clearer? The multiple spelling versions used for the same words (e.g. Woiwurrung and Woi Wurrung) isn't helping clarity either. Boneymau (talk) 05:29, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Uh yep, this is still the case. I'll have to do some research and clean this up. Poketama (talk) 15:33, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

I believe I've fixed this up! Happy to have had a crack at it. I've only used one source though, so it might be off still. Poketama (talk) 19:27, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

PS. Yes there was confusion, and this may still be hidden in the article, where people were referring to individual clans as Wurundjeri. In general as well, for anyone in the future, the Wurundjeri is the preferred term for Woiwurrung speaking peoples as a whole. Poketama (talk) 19:28, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Disputes around territory

I'm quoting an anonymous user here that had their edit (rightfully) removed because I think this kind of folk knowledge is useful for further discussions. If anyone has heard of this claim before it would be useful to hear about. However, it seems extremely dubious to me.

The Wurundjeri Native Title claimant's convinced the Victorian government and courts their ancestor grandfather Bebejern was from a tribe called Wurundjeri who owned Melbourne.

They state Bebejern was the paramount chief of the Wurundjeri tribe, and the Jaga Jaga brothers were under Bebejern's command.

They also state King Billibellary was a subordinate chief, and was not the paramount ruler of the Kulin nation and their ancestor grandfather Bebejern was.

The Wurundjeri claimant's failed to inform the Victorian government and courts that

The Wurundjeri never owned Melbourne and is not part of the Kulin nation and their ancestor grandfather Bebejern is on numerous records as being a subordinate chief from a completely different tribe not being Wurundjeri.

— Special:Contributions/124.168.178.166

Side note: The Wurundjeri people do have on-going territory disputes. Definitely with the Boonwurrung people, but I forgot if with the Gunnaikurnai and Taungurung as well. The decision to formalise the Boonwurrung/Wurundjeri boundaries a couple years ago has obviously been controversial and has been disputed by Carolyn Briggs and Murrundindi. Murrundindi's status as the ngurungaeta is also informally disputed, but this is a small interpersonal dispute and shouldn't be included in the article without very good sourcing. Poketama (talk) 04:54, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Lettsom Raid etc.

I have removed twice this WP:OR because the editor does not appear to grasp how we are obliged to write articles.

• You need good RS on the period, which can be supplemented by primary sources. But you cannot delve into primary sources to patch up or fill out a narrative. What happened here is that first you wrote that Latrobe expelled the Wurundjeri, then, when challenged, cited a primary source saying that he denied them the right to possess arms. Two totally different things.
• If you want to cite Cannon you mustn't go for long page lengths pp.31-35 for a datum. You should cite the specific page for each datum culled, and add the relevant text (since it is unverifiable except in a public library) in a note to support your paraphrase.
• The section of Lettsom Raid itself is unfocused. Why highlight that single episode? The settlers were actively murdering Wurundjeri and other tribes before and after that. We mention Major Newman's settlements in Templestowe, and the sourcing here is lamentable and primary. As a descendant of that murderous swine, I know the inner story of his poisoning of Wurundjeri, but I cannot use it until an Australian historical society specializing in these acts of genocide, whom I alerted many years ago about what family tradition recalled, follows it up with interviews with descendants of Wurundjeris who also retain a very similar account of the same incident, and the results are reliably published. It would be wonderful to be able to patch in my own knowledge, but there are no reliable secondary (or even primary) sources for this incident.
• In any case, I will undertake to cover the point you are elaborating on as that is covered in articles by Diane E. Barwick and books like Fels' in the next few days. There are strict editing criteria to be observed here, and so I suggest you exercise some patience until a draft is presented here of what happened in the period your proposed sketch covers.If I don't do justice to it within a week, by al means submit your own material, without primary sources, and focusing on the Wurundjeri. Wiki articles are done slowly, patiently, and collaboratively.

Nishidani (talk) 08:21, 13 October 2024 (UTC)