Talk:Wrath Month

This article was nominated for deletion on 22 July 2022. The result of the discussion was Speedy keep.

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A fact from Wrath Month appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 22 July 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the perceived tameness of LGBT Pride Month gave rise to Wrath Month?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/July. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Wrath Month.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:11, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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... that Wrath Month follows Pride Month?
- ALT1: ... that Wrath Month, originally a Twitter meme, came to be used to counteract the perceived tameness of Pride Month?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Mr. Bloom

Moved to mainspace by Vermont (talk) and Theleekycauldron (talk). Nominated by Theleekycauldron (talk) at 02:40, 8 July 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Comment - I'll review this. Be right back shortly. Mabalu (talk)
Length of article is sufficient at just under 1,700 characters. Tone is neutral and appropriate to Wikipedia, and I did not notice any copyvio. Sources are correctly cited, accepting the single cite to Colorado Springs in good faith as it is blocked outside of the USA, and everything else is appropriately cited so I have no reason to assume that the single cite I can't verify is suspect. I do have a concern that most of the sources are from 2018 and then a couple from 2022 - has there been no coverage in between? If that is the case, I can see people challenging this for notability and claiming it was a flash in the pan/practically single-event or at best, maybe claiming WP:TOOSOON (personally, I don't think it is too soon, but then I'm biased, being LGBTQ+ myself). Also, this needs to be linked to from other articles. Perhaps it can be added to a navbox or template such as Template:LGBT? The main issue for me before I accept it (and I would like to) is that notability may not be sufficiently demonstrated through the sources, so I would like to see some coverage of Wrath Month in between 2018 and 2022 to demonstrate that ongoing attention has been given. I also think maybe the hook could be a bit more in-your-face, perhaps even more "wrathful" to fit the theme, as both suggestions seem a little demure for what they're about. Mabalu (talk) 20:04, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the review, Mabalu! What I'll tell you is that the Colorado Springs Indy source is from 2020, and has a tone set around the Black Lives Matter Movement – as does this councilmember who got in hot water for declaring Wrath Month. Also, per WP:DYKSG#D6, orphaned articles are explicitly permitted, so I don't think we'll have a problem there. I think the notability looks solid enough – not as much post-2018 coverage as I would like, but it's there over the years. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:18, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Great! I thought being orphaned was a negative - the hatnote for it definitely makes being standalone seem like something *appalling* for an article to be. Good to know about the 2020 source, that makes me feel better about the breadth of coverage. I wonder if there is a snappier (literally) way to word the hook that combines overall neutrality while also helping illustrate why gay wrath would be a thing? Mabalu (talk) 21:47, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sure thing!
- ALT1a: ... that the perceived tameness of LGBT Pride Month gave rise to today's Wrath Month?
- ALT1b: ... that Wrath Month expresses anger at the perceived tameness of LGBT Pride Month?
Oh, and I should probably formally request a special occasion for this to run inside Wrath Month (usually thought to be July). theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 21:52, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Not sure about this, but here is my own attempt at a third hook. If anyone can do better, please do try. I think we need to make sure to mention LGBTQ for visibility, or that might well be yet another reason for Wrath Month! Also, yes, this should definitely go up during July. Mabalu (talk) 22:07, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- ALT1c: ... that Wrath Month follows on from LGBTQ+ Pride Month as a way of highlighting LGBTQ+-specific anger and social concerns?
  - @Mabalu: I've changed it to ALT1c, it looks to be in the same vein – how's this?
    - ALT1d: ... that Wrath Month follows LGBTQ Pride Month as a way of highlighting queer anger and social concerns?
  - I like these, too, because it highlights Wrath Month as a way of doing something without overselling it as being truly comparable. That said, I still probably prefer ALTs 1a or 1b. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 22:11, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - I like ALT1d the best, but I wonder if we can bring queer or LGBTQ into alt1 or 2 as a middle-ground? Mabalu (talk) 22:20, 10 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      - Just checking in - theleekycauldron , do you have any thoughts about this? I'm on the verge of clearing but just wanted to check if you were happy to add queer/LGBTQ to your preferred hook just to make sure it is clearly a LGBTQ thing? Mabalu (talk) 23:09, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        Hi, sorry! I've added "LGBTQ" directly to the hooks – happy to let the promoter pick between any of ALT1a–ALT1d. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 23:16, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Symbol voting keep.svg Good to go. Can we make sure that this goes live this month due to relevance? Mabalu (talk)

I'll move into the WP:SOHA. Thanks so much for the review! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 23:20, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @Mabalu: Can you specify which of the above hooks have been approved? Z1720 (talk) 14:51, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, sorry, I think ALT1b is perhaps the best hook, but if anyone thinks ALT1a is better I've no objections. Mabalu (talk) 23:42, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - I'd recommend ALT1a over b, as it's more accurate given the article's content. Vermont 🐿️ (talk) 23:51, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested additional content

The article refers to the "observation" of this commemoration, but most of the actual content seems to be about debates about whether it does or should exist. The lede is particularly scant. While one section focuses on LGBTQ+ issues, the first couple of paragraphs seems to suggest that it is a celebration (?) of one of the seven deadly sins, which seems to suggest a Christian theological background. What are the actual observances? Do people participate in wrathful activities? Where in the world (or the internet) is it actually observed? Is it LGBTQ+ specific or is it a Christian (or anti-Christian) thing? Is there a parade? 49.255.223.3 (talk) 04:50, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's not really a thing, you see. It's little more than a meme created by a few Twitter malcontents. There's really nothing to talk about other than its neologistic qualities as a meme. Frankly I'm not sure this could survive AFD, per GNG. Elizium23 (talk) 04:53, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the article should not have mentioned that, and unfortunately it was vandalized about 2/3 into its time on the Main Page. The erroneous claims were added by the above user. Vermont 🐿️ (talk) 21:05, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Vermont, are you calling me a vandal? Elizium23 (talk) 21:15, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You edited this article to make it say it's an observed holiday (against the sources and content of the article) then AfD'd it on the basis that it isn't an observed holiday. You tried to create your own evidence for an AfD on a topic you seem to be biased on. As for whether it meets the specific definition of "vandalism" on this project, that can be discussed, but your edits to this article were clearly disruptive. Vermont 🐿️ (talk) 00:14, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And yet you persist in accusing me of WP:DE, second-guessing my state of mind and knowledge, my motivations. Please retract your accusations, because this is all too personal, it is not WP:CIVIL, and you fail to WP:AGF. Elizium23 (talk) 00:18, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps "vandalism" is a joke for you, to be ridiculed with tongue-in-cheek edit summaries with your collaborating editors, but no, vandalism does have a specific definition here. Perhaps you could study that along with WP:AGF. Elizium23 (talk) 00:21, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits were disruptive. That is not a comment on your character. It is not uncivil to inform someone that their edits were disruptive, especially when a legitimate rationale is provided, as I have done here. Vandalism is not a joke for me. Vermont 🐿️ (talk) 00:29, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]