Talk:Worlds (Porter Robinson album)

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Proposed merge of Worlds Remixed into Worlds (Porter Robinson album)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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It's very possible that the remix album might be independently notable, but none of the sources I've seen cover it in a whole lot of detail. I feel like this content would be a much better fit as a section for the main album's article, where it would have more context and — in my opinion — greater encyclopedic value. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 19:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

• Support Have been thinking the same thing for a while. There's not much to be told in the Worlds Remixed article, not a single review, etc. (honestly, I don't think it's independently notable). Skyshiftertalk 18:28, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Goal: TFA on August 12, 2024

I am currently working on this article with the goal of making it TFA on August 12, 2024, the 10th anniversary of Worlds. I don't know if it will be possible because there's not that much time (and I'm not that experienced with FAC, so I'd definitely need to open PRs or go for GA first which takes time), but I'll try my best. I am mainly working on User:Skyshifter/sandbox, but I've just implemented 10 kb of new content. In case anyone is interested, any kind of comments on this content I'm developing would be highly appreciated. "Background and development" should be finished, as well as "Release and promotion" expect the sub-sections; likely moving to Composition next. Skyshiftertalk 13:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Obviously, I'm here to help out wherever I can. Getting this to FA in six months is kind of a tight deadline, but probably doable if you're willing to take the risk of skipping GAN (which could mean months of waiting). Also, try to work on the prose in this article, rather than your sandbox, as much as possible, as it gives me and other editors more of an opportunity to see how the article development is coming along and pitch in. That being said, is there anything specific you'd like me to help with right now? —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 15:24, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I will do my best to continue working here instead of the sandbox. It's technically four months to get to FA at most, since that's when I'll need to make the request at WP:TFA/R. I had been thinking of promoting the article for some time, but I just recently noticed that Worlds's anniversary is that close, so yeah. I might skip GA indeed, going for PR instead maybe. Right now, really any kind of comment would be useful. I only have one FA, so I don't think I'm experienced with having professional prose and other criteria, sourcing, etc. Since you're also a fan of Robinson, if you know any important information I've missed, feel free to point it out too. Skyshiftertalk 16:15, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll try to take a closer look at the additions you've made later this week and either leave comments for you or fill things in myself. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 16:41, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Well, I think I've finished. Not sure if I go for GAN or PR. Skyshiftertalk 20:10, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

I have quite a few GANs already, so I'm opening a PR. Skyshiftertalk 20:47, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

I've learned that a PR can happen simunatenously with a GAN, so that's what I'll do. It could be reviewed during the March backlog drive. Skyshiftertalk 12:40, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

FAC is open! Skyshiftertalk 00:14, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

My, what a coincidence... ;) —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 00:16, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Worlds (Porter Robinson album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Skyshifter (talk · contribs) 12:40, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Averageuntitleduser (talk · contribs) 01:15, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I was originally going to add to the peer review (which I might still do), but I figured I would just go about this instead. I'll try to be thorough and put even my minor comments here, which I imagine will be most of them. This album means a lot; getting it to TFA is a noble goal, and I hope I can help! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 01:15, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Skyshiftertalk 12:41, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Hey Averageuntitleduser, thanks for taking the review! You've already mentioned you're looking at the article from that angle, but we'd appreciate even minor MOS compliance things you notice so Skyshifter and I are as prepared as possible before co-nominating this at FAC. I think I'll let Skyshifter handle the comments, as it's their GAN, but either of you can feel free to ping me if you'd like my input. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 23:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Of course! I've got that stored in the back of my mind. Good luck you two! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 01:44, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Well-written

Lead

• Since then — this implies that, as of 2024, he still wants to prioritize these things, perhaps: "Thereafter"
  • Done
    • Something might have gotten switched around in your edits, I can't see the fixes to the "Lead" and "Background and development" comments (same for the "General MIDI" one). Averageuntitleduser (talk) 00:11, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
      • Just me undoing my edits accidentally for the nth time... will do them again Skyshiftertalk 00:14, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
        • tehe, got it! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 00:20, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
• He was inspired by themes such as fiction — can fiction really be a theme? Many common one-word themes are quite broad (e.g. love, death, freedom, power), but "fiction" feels a little too broad. "Fictional themes" could work, but perhaps you'd have a better idea?
  • In many interviews, Robinson says the album is inspired by "fiction", so I think it's important to cite. I've changed to "fictional themes"
• by including elements from video games, anime, and movies, and nostalgia, including sounds from 1990s video games. — the "and nostalgia, including..." bit blends a lot into the eariear part. There's always the handy "as well as".
  • Done
• Comment after the initial review : delink "depression" in the lead, or link it in the article. — this was fixed

Background and development

• Robinson felt that the genre limited expression — I would feel better if this was qualified time-wise, perhaps: "Robinson came to believe that the genre limited his expression"
  • Done
• Robinson stated that the style became unappealing to him because he felt "EDM is entertainment, it's not art" — you might have to paraphrase the quote or make the tenses line up, because the past tense "he felt" conflicts with the present tense quote. There's dozens of possible rewrites, here was my go: "he asserted to NME that the style became unappealing to him, citing the state of the scene: 'EDM is entertainment, it's not art'."
  • Done
• had the first idea for — "conceived the idea for"?
  • Done
• He decided he wanted to write music that prioritized "beauty" and "emotion" — I feel like this would flow better if you note when he decided this. "He then decided" could be a simple solution.
  • Done
• which became one of his first concepts for Worlds — "concepts" feels abstract, perhaps "goals" or "intentions"; if you're feeling artsy, maybe even "pillars" could work.
  • Done
• Instead of focusing on creating club-friendly music, he decided to create the music that he wanted to hear and felt needed to exist — the first "creating" feels redundant.
  • Done
• After its completion, Robinson stated that Worlds was the favorite thing he had ever done and that it contained his favorite music. — "thing" feels a bit, well, dull? Perhaps: "After its completion, Robinson cited Worlds as his favorite project, believing it contained his favorite music."
  • Done
• Comment after the initial review : hadn't — "had not" — this was fixed

Composition

I rewrote two sentences, feel free to revert or tweak them to your liking.

Looks good!

• with Robinson including elements of video games, anime and movies which resembled science fiction and fantasy — it's ambiguous as to whether the elements or the fiction resemble sci-fi and fantasy. I know it's probably an overlap, but still.
  • Paraphrased
• Robinson used General MIDI — as this is more technical, I think adding "sounds" afterwards would give a better understanding of what it entails.
  • Done
• M83-like synth-pop — I would add quotation marks around this
  • This is already paraphrased, so I think it's fine
    • Got it, I'd agree.
• Comment after the initial review : This was how Robinson chose the album title "Worlds". — Referring to the word, I would stick with Worlds in italics, as you did in the "Release and promotion" section.

  Done Skyshiftertalk 12:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Songs

Tracks 1–5

This read quite nicely, each song flows well from development tidbits to critical commentary! As well, seemingly no MOS issues. I did another round of copyediting, but nothing stood out as major enough to put down here. Of course, please revert anything you disagree with.

Tracks 6–12

• "Lemaitre" goes to a disambiguation page instead of "Lemaitre (band)" — this was fixed
• Robinson felt the song is where he sings the most clearly. — perhaps add, "across the album". Also, if the source allows, what does "clearly" mean? The legibility of his vocals, the transparency of the lyrics?
  • Expanded quote
    • I tweaked this to "stage presence", feel free to revert it if you'd like. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 00:01, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
• "fantastical and defiantly cheery, — a closing quotation mark seems to be needed
  • Done
• Robinson enjoys the track due to its — I would qualify that he said he enjoyed it; who knows, his opinion might not be the same today.
  • Done
• of big room and an atmospheric production — "of atmospheric big room"?
  • Done
• Buerger said the track has "the emotions of a tear-jerking blockbuster" for over three minutes, when the first beat appears. — this feels a tad clunky, or at least repetitive. Perhaps preface the quote for something like: "Noting the late introduction of beats, Buerger said the track has 'the emotions of a tear-jerking blockbuster'." Something better is probably out there, though.
  • Done

Release and promotion

• In the first sentence, I would make it obvious that Astralwerks won the bidding war and that they are connected with Virgin EMI.
  • Rewritten
• 17th — change the ordinal per MOS:BADDATE
  • Done
• Worlds Remixed, a remix album of Worlds including remixes by artists and producers such as Mat Zo, Odesza, Sleepy Tom, Galimatias and San Holo. — for repetition, perhaps just: "involving artists and producers such as"
  • Done
• Perhaps link "LED screens"
  • Done

Critical reception

• General comment : Right, you might've seen this coming, but this section feels a bit monotonous. It's no doubt fine for a GA; you do a great job of paraphrasing ideas and stringing them together, but the reviewers' coments are only ever introduced with the words "said" or "wrote". Switch it up a little, maybe play with the sentence structures! Otherwise, what did they commend, highlight, doubt, or concern... you get the idea. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 22:36, 5 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Changed a few things up. Skyshiftertalk 10:55, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
    • Of course, we don't want to fall into WP:ELEVAR, but it's looking better! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 12:50, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
• General comment : I probably should've said this earlier, but oh well. I agree that you do a great job stringing along the reviewers' comments, but I think it's up to you to make the connections between them clear. As of now, the reader has to fill in the gaps; it still feels rather "x said, y said." I like the changes above, but here's some more suggestions: what did reviewers agree or disagree on, what did they seem to add onto eachother? The arrangement of paragraphs by positivity works well, but topic statements within them might still be worthwhile. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 15:41, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Some recent FAs (House of Ashes, "Breakdown") seem to do this nicely. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 15:46, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

    Tried something. Skyshiftertalk 15:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

    The difference a few tweaks can make! Right, I'll get on to reviewing this section as normal. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 18:31, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

• "the next frontier" — I would move this toward the beginning, near: "Writing for Billboard," I believe it would flow better from the Spin comment and into the Rolling Stone review.
  • "The next frontier" for Robinson is the "approach of focusing on the individual instead of the collective", so they should be connected.
    • Ah, you're right; I tweaked it, but kept this in mind! I still think it would flow better after the sweeping statements. This would also connect the two comments about the album's propensity toward or against a live setting. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 00:37, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

      Looks nice! Skyshiftertalk 00:46, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

• Perhaps add one final topic statement before the Spectrum Culture review, along the lines of: "Some reviewers considered the album unexciting", whatever works best.
  • Done

Legacy

I saw no issues during a copyedit, it reads very nicely. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:05, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Track listing

Seems good.

Chart performance

Seems good.

Verifiable with no original research

Without a doubt, the sourcing looks great. For anything potentially questionable, only Robinson's words are being used. The citations are incredibly even, both for the development and analysis of the album. I believe the Vice and AXS reviews are alright, Vice is fairly prominent, as is the author, and Villa has written for so very many RSs. The other Vice articles are used sparingly and would seem difficult to replace without some refbombing. The Spectrum Culture article is more on the questionable side (no consensus on the RSN), but it has an editorial staff and decent reputation so it should be fine. Very low Earwig score of 30%, and the top results are only attributed quotes. Ideas are blended nicely and the attention to paraphrasing is very commendable!

• Be consistent with "Fuse.tv" or "Fuse".
  • One is their YouTube channel, another one is their website, so they have slightly different names. Skyshiftertalk 00:46, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
    • Got it. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 01:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• Ref 68 is dead, this could be a replacement.
  • Done Skyshiftertalk 08:54, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Spot-check

I plan to check as many as possible, starting small.

• Fitzmaurice, Larry (August 11, 2014). "Porter Robinson: Worlds". Pitchfork. Archived from the original on August 14, 2014. Retrieved August 17, 2014.
  • The "melody" part is a bit figurative, but it works. Looks good. Y
• Porter Robinson Interview: 'EDM is entertainment, it's not art'. NME. 2014-06-05. Archived from the original on February 13, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-13 – via YouTube.
  • Looks good Y
• Porter Robinson: New Album Update and Kanye West Influence – Beale Street Music Festival 2013. Fuse. May 5, 2013. Archived from the original on February 15, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-15 – via YouTube.
  • Looks good Y
• McCarthy, Zel (2013-11-14). "Porter Robinson Signs with Astralwerks After Bidding War: Exclusive". Billboard. Archived from the original on February 13, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-13.
  • Blunt, but no issue with that. I swear I remember confirming the "still retouching the songs" bit, but I can't find it anymore. Looks good otherwise.
    • Removed Skyshiftertalk 08:30, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• Ochoa, John (2019-01-22). "10 moments that defined Porter Robinson". DJ Mag. Archived from the original on November 8, 2021. Retrieved 2023-09-25.
  • Looks good Y
• Moen, Matt (August 24, 2021). "Let Porter Robinson Nurture You". Paper. Archived from the original on November 23, 2021. Retrieved August 29, 2021.
  • Looks good Y
• Cooper, Duncan (2014-07-31). "Porter Robinson conquered EDM, and now he wants more". The Fader. Archived from the original on June 2, 2016. Retrieved 2023-09-25.
  • Looks good Y
• Brown, Harley (2014-06-30). "'I Expected a Backlash': Porter Robinson Talks 'Virtual' Music, Denouncing EDM, and Online Games". Billboard. Archived from the original on February 14, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-14.
  • Looks good Y
• Interview: Porter Robinson on 'Sea of Voices', Future Music Festival and more... (Part One). the AU review. 21 March 2014. Archived from the original on February 13, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-13 – via YouTube.
  • Looks good Y
• Polonsky, Sarah (2014-09-11). "Interview: Porter Robinson Shares His New World". Vibe. Archived from the original on February 13, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-13.
  • Looks good Y
• Simpson, Paul. "Porter Robinson – Nurture". AllMusic. Archived from the original on May 23, 2021. Retrieved May 23, 2021.
  • Looks good Y
• Interview: Porter Robinson on 'Sea of Voices', Future Music Festival and more... (Part Two). the AU review. 21 March 2014. Archived from the original on February 13, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-13 – via YouTube.
  • Looks good Y
• Greene, Scott (2014-10-31). "Your EDM Exclusive Interview: Porter Robinson On Worlds". Your EDM. Archived from the original on November 12, 2020. Retrieved 2024-02-13.
  • Looks good Y
• Porter Robinson: New Album Update and Kanye West Influence – Beale Street Music Festival 2013. Fuse. May 5, 2013. Archived from the original on February 15, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-15 – via YouTube.
  • Looks good Y
• "New 'World' Order: Porter Robinson Interviewed". Clash. 2014-06-11. Archived from the original on February 15, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-15.
  • Looks good Y
• Masley, Ed (September 10, 2014). "Interview: Porter Robinson on the making of Worlds". The Arizona Republic. Archived from the original on February 13, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-15.
  • Looks good Y
• Brown, Andy (2023-02-27). "Porter Robinson says 'Star Wars Galaxies' inspired his first album". NME. Archived from the original on June 4, 2023. Retrieved 2024-02-15.
  • Looks good Y
• DeVille, Chris (2014-08-08). "The Week In Pop: Porter Robinson Welcomes Us Into His Worlds". Stereogum. Archived from the original on May 26, 2022. Retrieved 2024-02-15.
  • Looks good Y
• Pharms, Gabrielle Nicole (2014-08-20). "Porter Robinson: The Vision of Worlds". Life + Times. Archived from the original on February 16, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-16.
  • Looks good Y
• Staples, Derek (August 12, 2014). "Porter Robinson – Worlds". Consequence of Sound. Archived from the original on August 15, 2014. Retrieved August 17, 2014.
  • Looks good Y
• Tolzmann, Samuel (2014-09-03). "Porter Robinson: Worlds – Album Review". Spectrum Culture. Archived from the original on October 10, 2023. Retrieved 2024-02-17.
  • Looks good Y
• Kamps, Garrett (August 14, 2014). "Porter Robinson Invents Shoegaze-EDM on Dazzling Worlds". Spin. Archived from the original on August 18, 2014. Retrieved August 17, 2014.
  • Looks good Y
• Buerger, Megan (2014-08-06). "Album Review: Electronic Producer Porter Robinson's Dramatic Worlds Is Ideal Headphone Music". Billboard. Archived from the original on February 15, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-17.
  • Looks good Y
• Stolman, Elissa (2014-08-05). "Beat by Beat Review: Porter Robinson – Worlds". Vice. Archived from the original on February 12, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-17.
  • Put "one of the" before "safest", looks good otherwise.
    • Done Skyshiftertalk 15:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• O'Connell, Sharon (September 2014). "Porter Robinson: Worlds". Uncut (208): 76. Retrieved February 18, 2024.
  • Looks good Y
• Walters, Barry (August 12, 2014). "Porter Robinson, Worlds". Wondering Sound. Archived from the original on May 13, 2016. Retrieved October 17, 2018.
  • Looks good Y
• Pizzo, Mike "DJ" (2015-10-05). "Porter Robinson Reflects on Worlds, One Year Later". Cuepoint. Archived from the original on August 3, 2017. Retrieved 2024-02-17.
  • Not finding Avanna in the article, perhaps this Billboard article?
    • Added Skyshiftertalk 08:30, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
      • Ah, it was already a source! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 11:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• Cirisano, Tatiana (2017-07-06). "Porter Robinson's 10 Best Songs: Critic's Picks". Billboard. Archived from the original on July 2, 2022. Retrieved 2023-12-16.
  • Looks good Y
• Howe, Rupert (September 2014). "Porter Robinson: Worlds". Q (338): 112.
  • Very willing to WP:AGF
    • It can be checked here if needed. Skyshiftertalk 15:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
      • Thank you, it looks good Y Averageuntitleduser (talk) 20:27, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• Medved, Matt (2014-05-13). "Porter Robinson Drops 'Sad Machine' Single, Reveals Release Date for Worlds Album". Billboard. Archived from the original on January 25, 2024. Retrieved 2024-01-25.
  • I suppose it is a positive reaction from a fan, looks good. Y
• Prevatt, Mike (September 3, 2014). "CD Review: Porter Robinson's Worlds". Las Vegas Weekly. Archived from the original on November 29, 2014. Retrieved November 15, 2014.
  • Looks good Y
• Villa, Lucas (August 13, 2014). "Album review: Porter Robinson's virtual reality comes alive on Worlds". AXS. Archived from the original on August 16, 2014. Retrieved August 14, 2014.
  • They do cite "Flicker", but looks good enough. Y
• Stolman, Elissa (August 5, 2014). "Worlds". Rolling Stone. Archived from the original on August 19, 2014. Retrieved August 17, 2014.
  • Looks good Y
• Okay, at this point, I won't bother with copying all the sources here, I'll only do it if I seem to find an issue. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 11:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• DeVille, Chris (2014-06-03). "Porter Robinson – 'Lionhearted' (Feat. Urban Cone) (Stereogum Premiere)". Stereogum. Archived from the original on February 15, 2024. Retrieved 2024-02-15.
  • Where's BBC Radio 1?
    • Added sources. Skyshiftertalk 12:46, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• Every source afterwards checks out! The source-text integrity is absurdly good, even with finicky stuff like dates. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 14:30, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Broad in its coverage

Really good on this front. Nothing feels missing, and each section is proportional to eachother as well as the sourcing. To repeat from below, the representation of sources is so very balanced. I've tried my hand at looking for some, and nothing stands out. The most detailed unused one is this Complex article/interview, however a good bit of it is "Background" and a lot of its contents are already substituted in the article; I wouldn't leave this as a suggestion. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:18, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Oh, and the use of some offline sources is nice as well! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:34, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

I don't have much to say here, the article feels really balanced. The representation of sources definitely helps with this, they all seem attributed where necessary. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:54, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Stable

Well this is a given; no recent content disputes or edit wars. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 01:42, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Illustrated

Realistically, this is all quite good. All of the media enhances the article, the logomark is quite clever. Some suggestions for FAC:

• The "Source" paramater of the album cover no longer supports the original file. I think this is fine, but did you use a different source when updating the image?
  • Yes; updated URL
• I'm not sure how strict the reviewers will be, but perhaps flesh out the rationales of the audio samples a tad.
  • I think they're acceptable; but maybe I'll try expanding them later.
    • Indeed, they're surely good for now.
• Perhaps add alt text for the tour images.
  • I really, really suck with ALT text... I'll sort this out during the FAC. (I've seen some cases where ALT text is just "see description", maybe it could be the case here? No idea though) Skyshiftertalk 00:06, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
    • That's fair! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 00:36, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

      Hope you guys don't mind me butting in here again. I'm also working on my alt text chops, but I've added some for all the images. Let me know if there's anything that could be improved on! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 17:57, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

      I like them; they address all the right things! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 20:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Summary

I figured this review would go smoother in batches, I'll look at sourcing, images, breadth, etc. as I go. In the meantime, don't mind my pickiness! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 22:00, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

A "Personnel" section could be an option. See this image on Discogs. Averageuntitleduser (talk) 01:36, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Oh that's nice! That means some unsourced sample credits can be readded. Skyshiftertalk 10:37, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Done! Skyshiftertalk 10:59, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Well, I think that's all I've got. I should probably mention that the prose is very smooth, as you said: "flow-y". The paragraphs are easy to follow and specific quotes or examples of broader ideas are used effectively. By my very professional FAC Readiness Verdict™, this article is prepared! Once again, this review has been a pleasure, and I wish you two good luck with getting this to TFA! Averageuntitleduser (talk) 23:34, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.