Talk:World of Warcraft/Archive 19

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Edit Request

Under "In Other Media", there is an other French commercial featuring Alexandre Astier —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.64.129.117 (talk) 18:12, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request

Request adding a paragraph under the "Development" section to include the following:

World of Warcraft was originally pitched by William Petras (Art Director) and Kevin Beardslee (Lead Animator) in 1999 while working at Blizzard on project Nomad with the idea of making a better Everquest. The original development team consisted of seven developers (four artists, two programmers and one audio). Allen Adham and Shane Dabiri joined the team as Lead Designer and Producer shortly after the project was launched.

World of Warcraft was first announced by Blizzard at the ECTS trade show in September 2001.[45] Development of the game took roughly 4–5 years, and included extensive testing. 74.62.191.66 (talk) 17:10, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Citation for that? --Izno (talk) 17:32, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Minimum system requirements for World of Warcraft

this Minimum system requirements for World of Warcraft AusThor (talk) http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=21054 — Preceding unsigned comment added by AusThor (talk • contribs) 09:03, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request

"World of Warcraft, often referred to as WoW[citation needed]" - Citation needed? Are you kidding me? O.o Everybody calls it WoW to save characters and time. It's been a long time since the last time I heard someone pronuncing "World of Warcraft" entirely. - 151.42.175.29 (talk)

The content has been changed, and the tag removed.Shajure (talk) 20:00, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

i believe that they talk about it a lot in the big bang theory

perhaps it should be mentioned in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 16:24, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Why? If the BBT content adds value to the article, that might be worth adding. But the pop-culture section doesn't need more The article doesn't need this-show-mentioned-it content, IMO.Shajure (talk) 19:59, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Lulzsec

Didn't Lulzsec hack WoW? Shouldn't we add it?--86.135.155.144 (talk) 21:46, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Not unless it was covered in the press.Shajure (talk) 19:58, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Other influences

World of Warcraft has also made a separate cottage industry with Youtube. It is called an Illegal Danish and there are many people making small videos about the game. Noted are Nymh, Cranius, Sharm, Gigi to name a few. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.110.108.69 (talk) 10:22, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted where in the press?Shajure (talk) 19:57, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Subscription

I think it is worth mentioning, that since 4.2 demo account has ho time restrictions, making the game partially free-to play (with many restrictions however). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.111.236.31 (talk) 10:05, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Self-published Blizz sources for possible citation and/or content generation: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3128270#blog, and http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=20590. No time limit, runs to level 20. No trading (direct, nor mail, nor auction). No use of public channels. 10gold max. 100 trade skill level max. No guild membership or formation. No private communication to individuals unless they communicate with the trial account 1st or friend them. Shajure (talk) 19:56, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Demographics

Could someone find the Demographics of WoW? It would really help to explain who plays the game (Older men? Younger women?), the actions each gender takes (Do men hug more? Do women fight more?), and much more. Would help show what the scale of the game really is. And make sure it is sourced. Cbrittain10 (talk) 15:15, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Not appropriate for an encyclopedia article, unless it makes the news or is otherwise notable. scholar.google.com might yield some of that. Shajure (talk) 17:56, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure? This is quite notable, it is the most subscribed MMORPG in the world. But by who? Cbrittain10 (talk|contribs) 18:45, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

The research for this probably exists. For what its worth, I would think articles on Research on MMOs or Research on World of Warcraft would be appropriate, notable topics, but someone needs to take the time. /shrug --Izno (talk) 20:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

It does. But it has shifted over time. Cbrit, just because wp:other stuff exists doesn't mean it is good stuff.Shajure (talk) 21:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Academic Research on WoW

Question: is it appropriate to think about adding a section to discuss some of the academic research that has been done regarding WoW? Ranges from studies of social skill development to broader looks at the community and culture. There are several books by notable academics such as Edward Castronova. Thoughts? MyNameWasTaken (talk) 00:35, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

See the section right above. Such a section would be very appropriate, and if there are entire books, an entire article might be relevant! :) --Izno (talk) 01:21, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

There are several entire books including My Life as a Night-elf Priest and The Warcraft Civilization. I'll examine this issue further in the next week and figure out how to proceed. Although I'm a relative n00b, so suggestions are welcomed! MyNameWasTaken (talk) 02:05, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I can help, whether you're a noob at WoW or at Wikipedia. Just let me know what you need at my talk page or via email. --Izno (talk) 02:45, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Sentence one of the lead World of Warcraft, often abbreviated as WoW

Keep or delete ", often abbreviated as WoW"? I've noticed some disagreement. I vote to keep it, its a very common way that people refer to it in conversation. It definitely needs to be in the article and it might as well be right there in the beginning. MyNameWasTaken (talk) 06:34, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I have not seen any substantive disagreement, nor any substantive discussion, this is not ready for a vote, and none is needed. I know of no reason to remove it, and there is clearly reason to have it ("What are you playing these days? "WoW"). Shajure (talk) 14:52, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

• That said, I would support getting rid of the wording, and simply making the 1st sentence read "World of Warcraft (WoW) is..." Shajure (talk) 14:56, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
• Further, I would like to see ", a subsidiary of Activision Blizzard" dropped from sentence 1, and from the lead altogether. It seems a detail that adds bulk without adding depth to the lead.Shajure (talk) 14:57, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, from wp:lead "Abbreviations and synonyms - If the subject of the page has a common abbreviation or more than one name, the abbreviation (in parentheses) and each additional name should be in boldface on its first appearance. 'Sodium hydroxide (NaOH), also known as lye and caustic soda, is ...'"

So it seems the wp:Manual of Style is very clear on exactly how this is to be handled in the general case.Shajure (talk) 15:16, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the policy and suggestion on activision blizzard. --Izno (talk) 16:56, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

NOT

WoW is not #1. Brian Zhao 22:29, 20 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by YOPbottle (talk • contribs)

So find a wp:RS and propose adding it to the article.Shajure (talk) 01:11, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request

I was wondering if someone might add a "Plot" section in this article, giving a simple summary of the central story. I myself would, but I have no knowledge whatsoever about WoW. Just a suggestion, I do realize that it would be a very long section, and would take some rather hard work. Thalia 04:00, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

I will begin composing this in a word processor before putting it in here, there are many different questlines, but I will ignore the majority of them and focus on the world events instead of the individual quests.

Superbrief summary: Vanilla, Horde and Alliance at war, generic chaos; TBC, The Dark Portal has re-opened, Blood Elves have revealed themselves, Draenai have landed in Exodar. Both factions go into the Dark Portal to combat the Burning Legion, end up destroying it in the Sunwell Plateau; Wrath of the Lich King, The Lich King has attacked Azeroth and so both Factions retaliate. Some Death Knights rebel and rejoin the factions they belonged to. Fighting commences in Northrend with the Lich King's minions and the Black and Twilight dragonflights. Lich King is killed in Icecrown Citadel raid, then replaced by some guy whose name I can't remember; Cataclysm, Deathwing breaks out from Deepholm and devastates Azeroth. Many elementals have been unleashed and the Heroes of both factions fight Deathwings minions and close in on him. The Heroes have to go back in time to get a device that can kill Deathwing, and then fight and kill him in the Dragon Soul raid.

Not as brief as I planned. :P But it's there. Feel free to add a modified version of that, but I will be composing a fuller version, splitting it up for each expansion. Any questions can be directed here or to my talk page. Akjar13 (talk) 10:53, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Odd remark

Are you trying to tell me you have summed this game up into a classic quality, with quantity style-play type? Brilliant combo, I guess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.193.101 (talk) 02:46, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

The above seemed unrelated to the point to which it was added. Perhaps the author will revisit it. Or not.Shajure (talk) 04:03, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Maciekish, 26 September 2011

Please change "The three secondary skills, cooking, fishing, and first-aid, can also be learned by characters." to "The four secondary skills, archaeology, cooking, fishing, and first-aid, can also be learned by characters.".

Sauce: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/profession/

Maciekish (talk) 08:53, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

This article's scope has been generally restricted to the skills available with classic WoW. --Izno (talk) 16:22, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Subscriptions?

I thought I'd heard that World of Warcraft was now Free-to-Play up until level 20 or so? Can anyone confirm/clarify that, because if it's true it's probably worth mentioning... 203.211.125.249 (talk) 12:40, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

It's free to play for 14 days. This version only runs vanilla, and has a level cap of 20. After paying, you can upgrade the game to the newer verions. If this isn't already in the article, look for a source, post it here and make it an edit request. Akjar13 (talk) 12:59, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

It's free to play with no time limit now, only the level cap of 20. I'll add to the article. ferret (talk) 22:03, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

And done. It's under the Subscription section. ferret (talk) 22:13, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 18 December 2011

Remove the following:

"World of Warcraft contains traditional fantasy elements, such as gryphons, dragons, and elves; steam-powered automata and extreme engineering typical of steampunk; zombies, vampires, and other undead typical of horror; as well as time travel, spaceships, and alien worlds typical of science fiction."

Reason: Uncited for more than half a year. I would actually challenge some of the claims here, thus without references it certainly cannot remain in the article.

81.98.16.240 (talk) 10:08, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

• I also note this very section was challenged back in May, in one of the talk archives, and it is STILL here without any source. Pretty bad no? It seems it was saved last time by people claiming it was true... yet no one found any sources. This isn't how Wikipedia works surely? --81.98.16.240 (talk) 10:11, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

What part of the sentence specificly do you want cited? Most of it is covered by the articles sections on plot, gameplay, etc. It's mostly a summarization of other content in the article (And the expansions' articles) than a direct claim. ferret (talk) 16:11, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

My challenge is and was for all the wp:synthesis of the "typical of". The summary of the content seems fine. I am going to cut (again) the judgement calls... readers can make their own decisions about whether the undead are typical of horror, etc. Once.Shajure (talk) 17:51, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

How about that? I also dropped " and extreme engineering" - what the heck does that even mean?Shajure (talk) 17:57, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

It's probably referring to the more 'crazy' side of engineering, such as robot chickens. But I like your improvements. Sincerely, He's Gone Mental 08:56, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

WoW subscription costs of $120m/month greatly overstate actual revenues

This article has a note about subscription revenues being $120m/month and has a cite to an external source, but the source looks nothing better than someone's ill-informed back of the envelope calculation and not anything rigorous or informed. These sort of numbers are widely bandied about on the internet by anyone that simply multiplies the subscriber numbers by $15/month, so it would be nice if Wikipedia could have a more realistic figure and not contribute to this incorrect information.

The pcmag site simply takes the number of subscribers and multiplies it by $15 to get the monthly revenue, but this is wildly inaccurate because many players from China and other foreign regions don't pay anywhere near $15/month. I did a little googling around to get some better numbers and found this article from 2009 that says that while China makes up about 50% of the total player base they only account for about 10% of the revenues, and that about 47% of total revenues come from America/Europe. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Analysts-China-Matters-Little-to-World-of-Warcraft-118340.shtml

Blizzard Entertainment as a whole brought in $170m in revenue for Q1 2011. This includes all box sales as well as WoW revenue, and works out to $56.66m per month so clearly the WoW subscriber revenue is greatly overstated at $120m/month. http://www.joystiq.com/2011/05/09/activision-blizzard-banks-503-million-in-first-quarter-profits/

This link gives an insight to how WoW is managed in China, with the rights to the game being transferred from The9 to Netease. The numbers can't just be used raw because Netease is involved with other games as well, but perhaps comparing The9's loss in revenue to Netease's gain a rough idea could be gained as to Chinese revenue and this could be used as a rough yardstick to measure other figures that are found http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33194/World_Of_Warcraft_Drives_47_Annual_Sales_Rise_At_Chinas_Netease.php

I think the current information and cite should be removed and replaced with better information. --118.90.39.69 (talk) 20:39, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Not a crystal ball

Unless there is other support for adding the planned drop for w2k, I will remove it eventually. And no, content discussions belong here, not on your talk page.Shajure (talk) 04:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a crystal ball Shajure (talk) 04:51, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

What is w2k and what are you talking about? - Denimadept (talk) 07:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it's crystal ball for the developer to state they're dropping support for an OS in the next major release, it's industry practice to announce support drops before they occur. It's a future event, but just being something that will occur in the future doesn't make it crystal ball. The crystal ball applies to speculation and rumor. -- ferret (talk) 12:43, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Dropped the chinese gold pharming addition.

Dropped the gold pharming addition. If this needs a mention, it can go in the sale of real world... and I don't think the specificity of where the labor is cheap, the property laws allow gold sale is needed... maybe in a gold pharming article... but it is not specific to WoW and it is not specific to China.Shajure (talk) 02:15, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Did you know that inmates in China were being forced to play WoW to generate real income? It's relevant to the section where it was added, it's interesting, and it's referenced. Why would you want it suppressed? --Ifnord (talk) 22:37, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Did you know that that has nothing to do with WoW, and this has nothing to do with"suppress"ing anything. It has to do with wp:pillars. Your rant against China and Chinese people has no place in an article on WoW.Shajure (talk) 14:09, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Changed the section lead to explain that this practice is known as "gold farming", with appropriate wikilink to that article. The gold farming article itself already mentions the prisoner abuse with the same source, and the issue affects more MMOs than just WoW, although WoW may be the largest. -- ferret (talk) 15:18, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Citation Error citation #46

I'm getting an error "Cite error: Invalid ref tag; no text was provided for refs named gamasutra1; see Help:Cite errors/Cite error references no text" when trying to view citation 46. I was curious about the particular fact so I looked it up. Here is the article I believe it was referencing:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/38460/World_of_Warcraft_Loses_Another_800K_Subs_In_Three_Months.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.227.117 (talk) 20:10, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

the majority of references are from 2008

80+ from 2008 27+ from 2009 19+ from 2010

i think you get the idea.

i dont want to read an article that need is 4 years out of date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.4.67.101 (talk) 23:01, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

The age of the references is most reflected by the fact only WoW up to patch 1.12.2 is covered in this article…. This was an editorial choice. --Izno (talk) 23:32, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

The age of the references doesn't necessarily denote "out of date", either. -- ferret (talk) 23:36, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Security concerns section fails

Security concerns section fails.

When players create World of Warcraft accounts, they are asked to choose a username and password. Afterward, whenever they play World of Warcraft, they are asked to supply the same username and password in full. This is also the case when using account management facilities online. This type of authentication is vulnerable to keystroke logging. While this is not unique to World of Warcraft and is common to many MMORPGs, the game has been directly targeted with trojans being specifically crafted to capture account login details

Game companies have no way to stop people creating trojans to do this. Many other games that require a login have trojans that specifically target them.[1]

In September 2006, reports emerged of spoof World of Warcraft game advice websites that contained malware. Vulnerable computers would be infected through their web browsers, downloading a program that would then relay back account information. Blizzard's account support teams experienced high demand during this episode, stating that many users had been affected. Claims were also made that telephone support was closed for isolated periods due to the volume of calls and resulting queues.[95] In April 2007, attacks evolved to take advantage of further exploits involving animated cursors, with multiple websites being used.[96][97] Security researcher group Symantec released a report stating that a compromised World of Warcraft account was worth US$10 on the black market, compared to US$6 to US$12 for a compromised computer (correct as of March 2007).[98] In February 2008, phishing emails were distributed requesting that users validate their account information using a fake version of the World of Warcraft account management pages.[99] In June 2008, Blizzard announced the Blizzard Authenticator, available as a hardware security token or mobile application[100] that provides two factor security. The token generates a one-time password based code that the player supplies when logging on. The password, used in addition to the user's own password, is only valid for a couple of minutes, thus providing extra security against keylogging malware.[101]

Same as above, none of this stuff can be prevented or avoided by a game company. Apart from the bit about the telephone support being closed.

Blizzard makes use of a system known as Warden on the Windows version of the game to detect third-party programs, such as botting software, allowing World of Warcraft to be played unattended. There has been some controversy as to the legality of Warden. Warden uses techniques similar to anti-virus software to analyze other running software on the players' PCs, as well as the file system. However, unlike most anti-virus software, it sends a portion of this information back to Blizzard, which caused privacy advocates to accuse it of being spyware.[102] One example of the information Warden collects is the title of every window open on the system while WoW is running.[103] Blizzard has not stated what information is passed by Warden over the Internet, or if that information is encrypted, so it is entirely possible that this information is passed over the Internet back to Blizzard.[citation needed] On the other hand, many gamers responded positively to the development, stating that they supported the technology if it resulted in fewer cases of cheating. Blizzard's use of Warden was stated in the Terms of Agreement (TOA).[104]

Most of this can be cut down and moved to the main Warden (software) page.

The Warden's existence was acknowledged in March 2008, during the opening legal proceedings against MDY Industries.[105] The lawsuit was filed in federal court in Arizona, and also listed Michael Donnelly as a defendant. Donnelly was included in the suit as the creator of MMO Glider, software that can automatically play many tasks in the game. Blizzard claimed the software is an infringement of its copyright and software license agreement, stating that "Glider use severely harms the WoW gaming experience for other players by altering the balance of play, disrupting the social and immersive aspects of the game, and undermining the in-game economy." Donnelly claims to have sold 100,000 copies of the $25 software.[106]

How is this a 'security concern'?

Main article: Battle.net#Privacy and Real ID

On July 6, 2010, Blizzard Entertainment announced that on its forums for all games, users' accounts will display their real names tied to their accounts.[107] Blizzard announced the change following an agreement with Facebook to allow Facebook to connect persons who choose to become friends to share their real identity (Real ID, as Blizzard calls the feature). The integration of the feature to the forums on the Blizzard Entertainment sites has raised concerns amongst fans of the many game series Blizzard has created over the years.[108][109]

In response to the concerns, Blizzard released an updated statement on July 9, 2010, announcing that the Real ID integration with the official forums was being canceled.[110][111]

This is not related to World of Warcraft and belongs in the main Battle.net#Privacy and Real ID page. Especially considering it was never implemented.

In summary, 80% of this section can go. Or even the entire section and the remaining content be put elsewhere in the article or other pages.--Barbwrecker (talk) 11:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Put {{POV-section|date=June 2012}} under security concerns section to draw attention to above issues.--Barbwrecker (talk) 11:21, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't matter that "none of this stuff can be prevented or avoided by a game company", that doesn't mean it isn't an issue, nor does it mean that the largest MMO isn't specifically targeted for that very reason. As for the RealID part, it links to the related article, and is a short summary that was related to the game, there's no reason to remove it. - SudoGhost 21:41, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Mists of Pandaria Release Date

Blizzard entertainment announced the Mists of Pandaria release date as Spetember 25th 2012. But it is not updated on the main page. The main page still reflects beta testing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vish4urwish (talk • contribs) 17:29, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Iranian ban

Please add a section about the recent ban of WoW in Iran - that is the current US embargo against Iran causes Blizzard Entertainment to block Iranians from the service, including a seize of any current player subscription funds. --Caygill (talk) 22:57, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

New Expansion

the new pandaren expansion has been released and needs to be added to the expansions section — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramz163 (talk • contribs) 16:55, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Starter accounts can have 20 gold, not 10 gold

Just wanted to point out that starter accounts can have 20 gold, not 10 gold — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquila9213 (talk • contribs) 05:14, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually it is ten gold. Voxhit (talk) 01:53, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 September 2012

In paragraph two of the article, please add one sentence to the end of the paragraph because Mists of Pandaria was released on September 25, 2012. As an alternative, this information could be added to the last sentence of the paragraph.

If you need to confirm this information, one source is . Another source is .

Thank you.

Gpersell (talk) 15:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Done. Though an official press release is not an ideal source, I consider it reliable for the type of information it is being used to back up. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 19:32, 27 September 2012 (UTC)