Talk:World Cricket League

Organisation

This article is primarily about the World Cricket League and, although the regional competitions are connected to this in the sense that they act as qualification, I think the section could be considerably reduced - particularly now the regional competitions have less impact on new teams entering the league.

I think the Regional Tournament section ought to be vastly cut down, removing the table and leaving an overview of the qualification of teams from regional tournaments, a small table outlining teams that have qualified via this process and an in-text link to the various articles on the regional tournaments. By doing this you remove a great swathe of information that clogs up this article and that can be found elsewhere.

Another improvement to the article could be a rework of the table on previous WCL tournaments and adding an explanatory introduction to make it more comprehensive to the first time viewer.

I won't make any changes to the article unless other contributors think these ideas would improve it. I'd value your comments.

Waterhogboy (talk) 16:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Mmmm. Though I understand the reasons for the suggestion, i think it's still worth having all the regional leagues with a lot of info here. They have historically been important for the World Cricket league and they still have relevance as far as the allocating of new teams to any new lower divisions of the WCL. Grutness...wha? 22:43, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Please leave the dates for the Third season as it is as the Third season started last year (2012) with Division Eight, which is now the qualifying path to England 2019.

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2018/2019 (and after?)

As we all know, Afghanistan and Ireland have been promoted to "full status" (alongside the ten "big boys"). I also read somewhere that the Netherlands will be joining those^ teams in a 13-member One-Day league? But that 13-member setup has not been mentioned in the main article? ...

Will the Netherlands also have to play in the "Associate Nations' Division One"? (i.e., together with Scotland [probably] and various others).

To be fair, the answers to these^ questions are not yet known? Maybe they depend on results and rankings in the World Cup qualifying competition currently being played. --DLMcN (talk) 16:01, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

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If the Netherlands were to finish in the bottom two in the World Cup Qualifying Competition which is currently being played [something which is not completely impossible!], then that would obviously be quite an embarrassment, and the ICC authorities would have to 'scratch their heads' as to how to handle it. (Sometimes, it is just not possible to be 'completely fair' to each and every team). --DLMcN (talk) 16:48, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Champions

What actually counts as winning an edition of this league? The summary gives results of the WC Qualifiers tournament, but is this really the pinnacle of the World Cricket League? Shouldn't the current champions be the team winning 2015–17 ICC World Cricket League Championship and hence Netherlands. The previous champions would be Ireland from 2011–13 ICC World Cricket League Championship rather than Scotland, who won a qualifier that neither Ireland nor Afghanistan needed to take part in? I'm being BOLD and changing this. Spike 'em (talk) 12:58, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Is there actually any evidence that the WCQs form a direct part of this league? Spike 'em (talk) 13:00, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

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Spike 'em - What you say is true.

Of course, "Ranking Tables" (based on results and calculations) can often be found in various Internet sites, and people just have to realise that these can reflect [what could be called] "anomalous" situations. In the past, for example, Zimbabwe would sometimes appear ranked below Ireland or Afghanistan - even before these two latter nations had attained "full" status. In the future, as a consequence of the current WCQ tournament, the Netherlands could easily slip below Scotland in a ranking which featured the 12 "full-member" countries plus the four which get granted ODI status.

In the main article, there is something wrong with this piece:

At the end of each cycle, the World Cup Qualifier is played featuring the top twelve teams. According to the results, the top six qualify for Division 1 of the next cycle. The teams that finish seventh to tenth in this tournament proceed to Division 2 and the bottom two are relegated to Division 3. Teams in Division 1 gain ODI status and the top four qualify for the Cricket World Cup. In addition, there is no promotion or relegation so the teams remain until the next World Cup Qualifier is played.

That^ piece needs to be updated, but how? It depends on what plans are envisaged for the future; [i.e., I am certainly not in a position to correct it]. --DLMcN (talk) 17:43, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

I hadn't actually read through that section it is 9 years old and horribly out of date. I'll try to bring it upto date later, but I find the icc site very unhelpful in explaining how the whole thing works. I can't get my head round the seeming random distribution of the tournaments, with some divisions taking place more that once within a cycle and others only once. Spike 'em (talk) 20:02, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

I cannot find any clue as to what will happen to the bottom two teams in the current WCQ tournament. Logic (based on the past) indicates that they will have to go down to Division 2 [?], but when will that next be played? As I mentioned earlier, there is actually an outside chance that Netherlands will finish in the bottom two - but relegating them would create a bit of a "mess". [Even more "extraordinary", of course, would be Afghanistan ending up in the bottom two !] --DLMcN (talk) 05:46, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Another alternative - [probably better?] would be to invite Canada and Namibia up to play in a Division One consisting of seven or eight teams - [just as they did with Kenya and Nepal a few years ago]. --DLMcN (talk) 06:55, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22795468/painfully-small-margins-associate-cricket seems to answer my question posed two paragraphs ago; in this^ link, we read: "The next Division Four tournament is scheduled for April in Malaysia, leading into Division Three later this year followed by Division Two in 2019 where Hong Kong and Papua New Guinea among others ostensibly have a shot at climbing back to the next edition of the WCL Championship. But will there be a next edition? There have been no assurances"... In other words, there is no firm mention of a future 'Division One' competition [= the next 'WCL Championship']. As we know, however, the ICC do change their minds from time to time. Another interesting comment in that link, is that the difference in standards between Canada/Namibia and Nepal/Hongkong/PNG is not at all wide --DLMcN (talk) 16:18, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Spike 'em - answering your question: "Is there actually any evidence that the WCQs form a direct part of this league?" >>

>> The WCQ's do determine which countries get relegated into Division Two [or even into Division Three, as in 2014]. Certainly, this does seem unfair at times. In the 2014 WCQ, for example, Netherlands and Kenya were equal on points in the Group Stage, but Kenya squeezed through to the Super Six on 'Net Run Rate' [0.401 compared with 0.370 for Netherlands - who were therefore relegated to Div 2... Of course, we do not know whether Netherlands might still have performed badly (or well) in the subsequent Super Six that year]. I am calling this 'unfair' because it can easily be swung by the result of just one unfortunate match, whereas the World Cricket League final table is the result of many matches played during three years... And as a result of the recent [2018] WCQ, Hong Kong and PNG are being relegated to Div 2. (As mentioned above, we do not know if there is going to be another 'World Cricket League Championship' for Associate Nations in the near future, or how many teams will be playing in it). --DLMcN (talk) 17:43, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I kind of figured out the first bit. I still can't understand why they finish a WCL championship, relegating a bunch of teams to Div 2, run that Div 2, feeding into the WCQ which immediately relegates teams back to Div2, which I assume will then run before whatever Div 1 / championship runs next. THere seems to be nothing on the ICC pages explaining the structure. Spike 'em (talk) 20:31, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Probably the best way of describing it - is to acknowledge that the system just keeps changing from cycle to cycle. Eventually we will get told what future plans are envisaged for the associate nations. Scotland certainly deserve to be included in the new [expanded] ODI-league, alongside the Netherlands and all the 'big boys', so - Who knows? - the ICC may even be considering that. --DLMcN (talk) 08:32, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Associate rankings

Spike 'em - I'm not going to interfere with your recent change [putting Netherlands above Scotland], but I cannot help wondering if we really are using the best criterion, namely: "Teams that have One Day International status are ranked by their win percentage against other Associates with ODI status" ... Surely Scotland should be given credit for beating Afghanistan in the recent tournament, and for tying with Zimbabwe? Regards --DLMcN (talk) 03:35, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

That is how they are ranked in the ICC website, so unless there is some other recognised ranking system to use that is all we can report. Spike 'em (talk) 05:34, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

http://home.iprimus.com.au/shane_booth/cricket/assoc.html seems well researched. Who decides whether or not it should be "recognised"? --DLMcN (talk) 10:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

All the rankings on this page are from the ICC, who organise the tournament. You'd need to find multiple major sources who use the ratings you found before you can use it on here. It looks interesting, but not notable to me. Spike 'em (talk) 11:40, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

I've just noticed https://www.icc-cricket.com/rankings/mens/team-rankings/odi >

8 Sri Lanka 43 3,302 ........ 77

9 West Indies 29 1,989 ..... 69

10 Afghanistan 28 1,758 ... 63

11 Zimbabwe 37 2,021 ..... 55

12 Ireland 20 766 ............. 38

13 Scotland 16 535 .......... 33

14 Un. Arab Emirates 13 236 ..18

... which may? perhaps take into account Scotland's victory over England today (10th June) --DLMcN (talk) 19:06, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

They were already 13th on that list, but their rating has improved based on the result today. The ICC added the 4 ODI associates to the main list at the start of this month (or they will be added once they play enough games in the case of Nepal and Netherlands) Spike 'em (talk) 19:53, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Seasons

Requesting reliable and, preferably, official sources for grouping the tournaments by World Cups, where the tournaments leading to the same edition are considered to be of the same "season". If sources are found, then requesting sources that justify singling out the CWC Qualifier, WCL Championships and WCL Division Two in the Summary table. Summary table and mentions in prose will be removed if there is no opposition. --SocietyBox (talk) 02:51, 21 November 2020 (UTC)