Talk:Working on a Dream Tour

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July 27, 2010	Good article nominee	Listed

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"Recession pack"

The part of the show with the socially conscious songs is referred to, in this article and elsewhere, as the "recession pack". But who coined this phrase? --Richardrj ^talk ^email 08:09, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's not just socially conscious songs (most of Bruce's are that), but ones that specifically deal with economic hard times and their effect on people. Wasted Time R (talk) 14:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know that (I saw several shows on the tour and I know exactly which songs we're talking about). --Richardrj ^talk ^email 14:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As to who coined the term, it may have been fans first, but it's worked its way into the media and into Springsteen's own website, per some of these hits. Wasted Time R (talk) 14:29, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of "Songs performed" section

I have removed the "Songs performed" section. It was incompatible with this being a GA article, for a number of reasons:

It was unsourced, and everything here has to be sourced.
It was inaccurate. For example, "Last to Die" was played in several Philadelphia and Giants Stadium shows, but here was listed as 'Soundchecked/not performed'.
The organization by album was pointless. As the article already points out, six different albums were played in their entirety, so obviously every song on them was performed.
The information is overly detailed and violates WP:NOTADIR. It tells the reader nothing about how often a song was performed, or what thematic meaning it had in the set, or anything else. It's just a list. The article is supposed to summarize information for the reader and describe what's important, and that's what the narrative sections of the article do. This section just overwhelms with excessive detail.

Information like this is what the "External links" section is for. Just add an external link to whatever fan website this was taken from, and if a reader wants to see this, they can. The requirements that external link content be accurate or relevant is less than that for material in the article itself. Wasted Time R (talk) 10:51, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All of the articles on Springsteen's tours feature full song listings of what was played as do many tour pages for musicial artists on wikipedia so if you are going to remove them from this article might as well do it for all of them. The orginazation by album isn't pointless because it's listed that way in each tour article which provides a good idea of what albums/songs were played. This tour however featured the first few albums in their entirety but it's not that way for each tour. Jason1978 (talk) 10:51, 09, July 20012 (UTC)

Set list

@Wasted Time R: Hello, I just wanted you to know that I have re-added the set list to the article since I don't understand your point. You say it's misleading because it changes every night which I understand. However, right underneath the section it reads: "This set list is representative of the performance on November 8, 2009. It doesn't represent all concerts..." and so on. This format is followed on many other tour articles, where the set lists are subject to change as well. Before editing this article, a bunch of songs from his albums were listed and not in chronological order. I find that to be very misleading and that has on present on the article for many months. I see nothing wrong with having one basic set list from one of the shows and with a reliable source. Like I said earlier, this is a format followed on many tour articles presently. Thank you for your time! — TheMadonnaMusicCN (talk, contribs) 20:38, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Themadonnamusiccn: I agree that the old content in this part of this article was not useful and I am fine with its removal. However the new content isn't really useful either. While concert tours from Madonna, Katy Perry, Miley Cyrus, etc. may have set lists that vary a little from night to night, Bruce Springsteen has concert tours with set lists that vary much more than that. People knowledgeable about Springsteen tours would never try to point to one show like you are. Instead they would describe a tour's set lists by saying what parts of the show were fixed slots that almost never varied, what parts were slots that used rotations among a small number of songs (such as the "epic slot"), and what parts were wildcard slots where anything goes. And finally, the show you picked to give a set list of is the one where he played the double album The River all the way through in sequence. It was a memorable show to be at and the article text already mentions it. But it was the absolutely least representative show of the entire tour! There is no point in including its set list here. Wasted Time R (talk) 23:12, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Wasted Time R: Well either way, its better to have one than none at all. I could find one more representative of the tour, but at this rate it seems near impossible since "people knowledgeable about Springsteen tours would never try to point to one show like" me. — TheMadonnaMusicCN (talk, contribs) 23:28, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Themadonnamusiccn: No, it is worse to have this than to have none at all, because it gives a completely misleading impression of the tour. It doesn't include many of the key sequences that marked most shows, such as the "recession pack" of songs that the article text describes. Let me ask you, if in the middle of the MDNA Tour, Madonna had decided to do a single show that was mostly the True Blue and Like a Prayer albums, every song in order from start to finish, and she dispensed with the darkness into light themes and whatnot, would that be the show that you would include in MDNA Tour article's set list section? That is what you have done here. This is a GA article and a lot of work went into it. I would ask you to respect that work and to remove this section as you currently have it. Thanks. Wasted Time R (talk) 03:29, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Wasted Time R: Okay, I didn't realize it was so crucial. I just looked a concert review and saw the set list and used that one. My mistake. It's gone. — TheMadonnaMusicCN (talk, contribs) 21:01, 10 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Themadonnamusiccn: Thank you for doing this. Wasted Time R (talk) 03:30, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]