Talk:Workers' Party of Belgium

Presidency of Raoul Hedebouw.

To avoid an edit war, I find it necessary to argue that we shouldn't put Raoul Hedebouw yet as president yet as the RTBF (the Belgian Radio-television of the French Community) has reported he will only take the functions of president the 1st January 2022.

Maxime12346 (talk) 20:43, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

References

The WPB's ideologies

I've removed both "communism" and "revolutionary socialism" under their party ideologies, as I find these lacking in nuance or non-representative of the party's views. I'll go by each outlook and why I think they aren't fitting, or why the sources given are inadequate.

Communism: the source given was directly from their Statutes book (2015), where article 2.3 states: "The WPB is a contemporary communist party. Her end goal is a society which dissolves the exploitation of people by people and in which the community whole controls society."

This article is immediately followed by the statement that "The WPB bases itself off Marxism as a theoretical vision" (my emphasis). What type of 'contemporary communism' is meant, i.e. how the party looks to establish its end goals, is mentioned later (art. 5) under what they name Socialism 2.0, or a modern-day updated version of a socialist society.

To me, using the term "communism" is too broad and possibly misleading (the name has become an umbrella term for all sorts of far-left ideologies, under which more authoritarian views like stalinism or maoism, which the WPB is not). At least three nuances should be given: the party's theoretical vision is that of marxism; it does not have concrete plans to establish a society which can be described as 'communist' (rather, the WPB envisions democratic socialism - see article 41); the party strives first and foremost towards a halt to exploitation, discrimination and inequality within the context of a present-day society (cfr. Socialism 2.0, an 'update' of socialism): it emphasises the struggle of lower classes, but also doesn't seek a radically communal society where everyone's paycheck is the same.

Revolutionary socialism: the two sources given both come from interviews with the (since 2022) chairman of the WPB, Raoul Hedebouw. One is from 2013, while the other is most recent (january this year). In it he expresses the typical marxist idea of the working class emancipating itself from its oppressors and taking fate into their own hands. Two things about the 2013 interview: the views are particular (that is, one person with ties to the party is speaking, not the party itself), and nowhere is it explicited that a 'revolution' (in the classical, communist sense: overthrow capitalism, establish classless society) is necessary or even a goal of the party. This interview is just Hedebouw expressing his leftist views in a typical satirical manner.

The 2022 interview is a bit different, given he's now the chairman of the party, which may seem as if he's directly articulating what the party wants or will do, but the title of the interview's article is misleading. It reads: "Anti-capitalism, no compulsory vaccination, American condemnation: Raoul Hedebouw confides in the ambitions fo the WPB" Here, there is indeed mentioning of 'the need for a revolution', but this is again from Hedebouw's particular vision of what the party should do. Keep in mind the party is radically democratic in its internal structure, as it encourages critique and discussion to reach a majority consensus on their course of action (art. 41 & 46). This should hence not be generalized to the party's vision as a whole.

I hope this clears up why I find these two ideologies to be redudant or misplaced, feel free to discuss! FireFlyingly (talk) 14:46, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

"Left-wing" is WP:RSUW

Dear Fellow Editors,

It is well-established precedent on Wikipedia that in order to say a party is "_____ to ______," that party has to be at least roughly equally called both of those things. The Workers' Party of Belgium is called "left-wing" by precisely three sources, and it seems like whoever found these sources dug very, very deep, as two of them are buried in the innards of some book behind a paywall, and the third is the sole news article to call this party left-wing, except it's also a typo because it says "leftwing."

Let us compare this with the amount of sources that call this party far-left:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2024/04/22/belgium-the-2024-federal-elections-deadlock-ahead/

https://freedomhouse.org/country/belgium/freedom-world/2023

https://www.brusselstimes.com/1076081/workers-of-belgium-unite-the-marxist-party-promising-to-break-the-mould

https://rosalux.eu/en/2024/english-the-inexorable-rise-of-the-belgian-workers-party/

https://links.org.au/inexorable-rise-belgian-workers-party

https://www.rosalux.de/en/news?tx_news_pi1%5Baction%5D=detail&tx_news_pi1%5Bcontroller%5D=News&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews%5D=51955&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews_uid%5D=0&cHash=6dbf1fe720a124c4e75f6a118fff3b65

https://jacobin.com/2018/12/belgium-workers-party-ptb-elections-left

https://think.ing.com/articles/belgian-elections-guide/

https://www.brusselstimes.com/547244/far-right-and-far-left-parties-surge-in-polls

https://www.belganewsagency.eu/elections-2024-the-key-players-in-pvda

https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/11/18/last-of-the-commies

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/world/europe/belgium-2024-election.html

https://more.bham.ac.uk/populism-in-action/2019/11/04/belgiums-populism-and-polarization-europe-in-miniature/

https://feps-europe.eu/belgium-the-far-right-at-the-gates-of-power/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13597566.2020.1843021

https://www.france24.com/en/20190527-belgium-begins-hard-task-post-election-coalition-building

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/opinion/the-brief-the-budding-peace-camp-for-european-elections/

https://www.bankofscotlandtrade.co.uk/en/market-potential/belgium/political-context?vider_sticky=oui

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2024/06/07/they-are-looking-for-an-alternative-right-and-left-extremes-to-gain-in-belgian-elections/

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/belgiums-eurosceptic-parties-maintain-eu-seat-count-as-liberals-do-well/

https://brusselssignal.eu/2024/03/the-hammer-and-sickle-returns-far-left-parties-are-on-the-rise-across-europe-if-the-trend-continues-the-continent-could-become-ungovernable/

https://fee.org/articles/in-the-face-of-rising-communism-belgian-liberals-want-to-teach-history/

That's 21 sources, including both news and research papers, all found within the span of about 5 minutes. This, additionally, includes a source from France 24, the sole newspaper to call this party left-wing, or "leftwing," in the cited case. If we are to give those few sources that call this party anything other than "far-left" such weight, then the AfD is "right-wing to far-right", National Rally is "right-wing to far-right" and many, many more parties need to have their ideology changed to fit the brand new consensus that the political experts over here on the Wikipedia page for the Workers' Party of Belgium have cooked up.

Additionally, at least two of these sources, the Economist and the Foundation for Economic Education, call this party Communist, and I am adding this ideology back.

If anyone has any problem with any of this, I invite you to find more sources. Otherwise, take your ideologically-motivated objections and shove them up where the sun don't shine there is little basis for keeping this page as it was.

Thank you,

-JustAPoliticsNerd (talk) 16:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)