Talk:Wonder Man

Untitled

Thank you, Wonder Man!--Theloniouszen 07:32, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Wonder Woman/Wonder Man Lawsuit

Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about this from a source other than Stan Lee. I just find it odd that DC would sue Marvel over a character who debuted and died in the same issue and can't find anything about it other than that quote. Stan can be a bit of a showman and I wonder about the validity of what he said. He makes it sound like DC made him kill off Wonder Man but he was already dead.

Demolicious (talk) 09:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Strength

As the Marvel Handbooks are unreliable, it is best not to cite them here. A good example is the Thing (from the Fantastic Four), who is listed as being capable of lifting 70 tons but actually hefts structures weighing far more (eg. buildings, spaceships). The best way to quantify a character's strength is to cite feats or compare them to an established powerhouse (eg. the Hulk). Wikipedia also considers citations from comic handbooks as plagiarism, although the above mentioned examples can help get around that.

Asgardian 06:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The article states:

Zemo's treatments surpassed his expectations and endowed Wonder Man with strength comparable to Thor.

However in one issue of the Avengers Wonder Man is trying to show off in front of Ms Marvel and attempts to lift one of Thor's weights. He fails and needs to be saved by Iron Man who turns off the weight with his repulsor ray. In that scene Wonder Man actually says that he is not as strong as Thor. I will go through my collection and find the exact issue if need be but it was during the Korvac saga.

Also in an early issue of the Thing's own title the Puppet Master posseses Wonder Man and sends him to kill the Thing. Because the Puppet Master is unused to the body and physical violence the Thing rather quickly defeats him. However during the fight the Thing's thought bubbles read "I know that Wondy aint as tough as me but he shouldn't be folding this early on" or words to that effect. I'd have to go through my boxes to find the exact issue and wording.I admit that this is the Thing's own personal opinion as it is his thoughts that we are reading but that must count for something.

The Prime Source 11:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)Dale

The two cited issues above from Avengers #175 and Thing #5 are extremely old and belong to the stage fright insecurity period that Wonder Man went thru during the late 70's. In a Marvel Two in One Simon shows marked strength superiority to The Thing when even under Xemnu the Titan spell he lifts a gigantic barbell with just one hand and throws it like a paper plane that Thing had just struggled to lift off the ground with both arms. Once Wonder Man started to gain confidence he started to show his real strength. From then on he was implied and shown as the equal of Hercules (Avengers 211), Thor (WCA Annual) & Hulk (Wonder Man's own series). Those showings elevated the character to the strength standards he shows today. Particularly important is the way Arkon the Barbarian, a character who has fought Thor testifies in Avengers West Coast that Wonder Man hits harder than Thor and the beating Wonder Man gives to the Abomination.

SimonWM 01:06, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I remember the fight with the Abomination in the West Coast Avengers. Abomination has the strength of a calm Hulk and cannot approach the strength levels of a angry Hulk. Yet I remember that Wonder-Man took a heavy beating in that fight and was covered in bruises at the comic's end when he visits Hawkeye and Mockingbird in the hot tub. Compare that to Hercules' own mini-series, where Hercules hits the Abomination once and the Abomination is knocked halfway across the city, his face becomes a bloody pulp and he looses teeth and falls unconcious. So Wonder-Man is not anywhere near as strong as Hercules. And I think that we can safely assume that Hercules and Thor are comparable in strentgh after all the long fist fights these two gods have had with each other. I agree that Wonder-Man is stronger than the Thing but I've not seen any evidence to say that he is as strong as Thor.

Thor might not of been punching Arkon with his full strength. A god with his strength level must pull his punches for most of the opponants that he punhes or they would end up as nothing more that smears on the wall. Just like Spider-Man does when he punches some ordinary man without powers. Thor probably only ever cuts loose with his full strength when he's hitting someone like Hercules, the Hulk or the Destroyer.

Thor has lifted part of the Midgard serpent which is big enough to wrap itself around the entire planet. I have not seen any evidence that Wonder-Man coupld duplicate such a feat. He is not anywhere near as strong as Thor.

81.131.50.133 13:55, 2 October 2007 (UTC)Dale

Abomination doesn't has the strength of a calm Hulk. He is the Hulk enemy that has KO Hulk most often; not Banner Hulk or the professor but Hulk in his greenest meanest. The abomination cameo you are refering to where Hercules KO the abomination in a cameo of a couple of panels cannot even be counted as a proper fight. This Hercules mini series like all Hercules mini series is filled with humor. In a proper continuity series it would have been Hercules the one knocked halfway across the city by the abomination. Hercules has never been nowhere near Hulk power levels. In the Thor series Roy Thomas always wrote Hercules as inferior in strength to Thor. Only during the old Lee/Kyrby ,because Odin took half of Thor's strength, could Hercules dominate Thor. Wonder Man has gone naked fists against both Thor's fists and Mjolnir and Thor had to summon his thunder mystic powers thru Mjolnir in order to dominate Wonder Man because in a pure hand to hand combat Thor was missing. Thor doesn't needs to pull his punches with Arkon or any oponents at that power levels. Hulk also nods to Wonder Man being a match to him in Wonder Man #27 after Wonder Man takes on the Hulk while at the same time being hit by military cannon gunfire. You can see panels of Wonder Man stopping Hulk fists in mid air and sending him flying to the ground.

SimonWM 00:03, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

In one issue of Thor's own title he arm wrestled with Hercules to establish who the stronger of the two was and during the contes they destroyed an entire mountain plateu between them and the contest went undecided. Hercules is definately within Thor's strentgh class, though it would be difficult to say who is the stronger of the two.

It dose not matter how much humour is in Hercules's own series it still happened and it is still canon. The Abomination can lift around 100 tons which is about what a calm Hulk can lift but Hercules can lift thousands if not millions of tons. It would be very easy for him to take out the Abomination with one punch. It would be next to impossible for the Abomination to do the same thing to the Lion of Olympus.

Hercules has dragged and lifted the entire city of Manhatten. He's lifted an entire space battle cruiser. He's thrown giant trees from earth into space.Also remember the Greek myths are canon within the Marvel universe. Hercules has supported the entire world on his shoulders.

Wonder-Man is just not in the same league as Thor, Hercules or an enraged Hulk. The articles statement that he is as strong as Thor is somebody's opinion that has never been established in comics and should be removed.

Wonder-Man has always been able to lift around 95 tons but with training and his power's development he can lift around 100 tons which would put him in the same league as the Abomination or a calm Hulk. Which is why he really struggled to beat the Abomination in a fight.

Remeber that he is composed of energy therefore he can take a lot of punishment. So obviously Hulk's fists or Thor's hammer are not going to cause him as much damage as they would a more flesh and blood enemy. ut the ability to take damage does not equal strength. Look at the Juggernaut, he can take blows from Thor's hammer and the Hulk without moving, but he is nowhere near as physically strong as either Thor or the Hulk.

Wonder-Man is just not as strong as Thor, the article is wrong.

81.131.56.27 17:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)Dale

Actually in one of Wonder Man's first Appearances he battles Thor n Thor proclaims Wonder Man's Blow was as powerful as a blow from Mighty Mjolner. Since its established that when Thor wants to hit harder he uses his Hammer this clearly makes Wonder Man stronger.

Further in the West Coast Avengers Wonder Man attempts to crush Ultron's Adamantium head. He fails, but creates so much pressure that the circuitry inside is destroyed.

I would suggest that since wonder Man is made up of Ionic Energy, his weaker moments must be caused by Solar Flares, Electromagnetic Fields, EMP's etc. But it seems Clear that Wonder Man's top strength is Greater than Thor or even a calm Hulk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.125.18.110 (talk) 06:00, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Flight

In Might Avengers #3, it appears Wonder can still (even in human form), despite being carried in #1. I'm altering the powers section accordingly. -AS

First appearance

From the article, "and first appeared in Avengers Vol. 1, #9 " Later it states, "records Wonder Man's brain patterns in the hope that one day he can be revived. [1]" "1. ^ Avengers Vol. 1, #3" He couldn't have been recorded before his first appearance. Unfortunately I have no idea what issue he first appeared or which episode he was recorded.

Rauglothgor 00:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Infobox image.

I've place the full promotional art back as the one recently uploaded to replace it is the same image and adds nothing to the article. Swapping out for the more recently uploaded image is a waste of time and effort, so can we just leave this as is?

Thanks for listening.... — J Greb 17:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

The George Perez ionic look created for the Kurt Busiek tenure as Avengers writer is not the current look. Wonder Man is back to his human look. A much more prevalent look since he has been human looking most of his published life. I have replaced this image with a human looking one very much in context with his WCA & regular series look, which is his longest and most active period as a Marvel character

SimonWM 01:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

"Avenging Days" section

This section is in big-time need of a cleanup. For one thing, big chunks of information are repeated and restated (as if someone had written them, then someone else added their take on the events without getting rid of the original text), and the grammar is atrocious in parts. 204.153.84.10 20:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Question

(Removed unsourced claims and "tell the story" component.) ---

Tell the story? What?

I can understand the first part, though I don't agree with it. The best thing to do would be to ask for the relevant issue numbers, not go deleting things.

Lots42 22:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Human??

Is Wonder Man still considered human? I thought when dealing w/ Mephisto, it was reveal that Wonder Man is not the original Simon Williams, but rather an ionic duplicate. 66.109.248.114

In the 2000 mini series Avengers Two, that was retconned as Mephisto messing up with Simon's head. The Beast, Wonder Man parents and most of the characters that thru the story reveal this to Wonder Man are Mephisto's constructs. The powers he exhibits during that story "Hidden Depth" are also revealed as Mephisto's illusions.

SimonWM 01:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Kirby1 wonderman.jpg

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BetacommandBot 05:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I have added Fair use rationale. SimonWM —Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonWM (talk • contribs) 15:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Wonder Man

How come his name is remotely to a female DC character? And how come one Captain Marvel is also on a Marvel Universe? Looks Like Stan and Jack don't know their rivals' superhero names. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.60.241.27 (talk) 03:07, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Power Level

I'm wondering how this character's recent statements that he's "as strong as that Sentry guy" can be reconciled. He was quite soundly beaten during World War Hulk while the Sentry was at least a match for the Hulk one on one. As Simon doesn't seem to know the Sentry very well, can we put it down to that ? He is simply unfamiliar with just how powerful the Sentry is ? Hermiod (talk) 19:08, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

To continue the dicussion from my Talk Page, the original claim is valid as it is backed by Zemo - who gave WM his powers - and then WM himself, with a humorous example of how he's not quite Thor in Avengers #176. User:Pairadox just put the most recent claim back, but it is invalid because:

- being stronger than Ms. Marvel is no big deal as he was always far stronger than her!

- yes, he's almost as strong as the top tier, but not quite. Not Thor or the Hulk. Sentry? Aside from the fact that the character shouldn't even exist (another story), it is hearsay, and superfluous as there's already a mention against the top tier Marvel character.

- it creates a second power claim and now smacks of a fan-oriented Offical Handbook of the Marvel Universe. The Powers and Abilities section is not a justification for a character's powers or an assertation that they can match X, Y or Z but should just be a simple statement of what is possible. User:DavidA also falls into this trap with his reworkings of the P & A. I've noticed the less experienced editors always seem to get carried away here. Revert back as you like.

Asgardian (talk) 18:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Please be civil. In other words, don't call other editors "less-experienced" or say that they are getting "carried away". Your argument is essentially correct, but it is stronger when you refrain from name-calling. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 22:03, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. It is not a personal observation, folks. I injected POV and hearsay when I first started.

Asgardian (talk) 07:52, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that any statements made by Zemo are no longer relevant because of the change in the nature of his powers, the ever changing nature of Ms. Marvel's and the vastly inconsistent way The Sentry is written. One minute he's struggling against Ultron or the Collective, the next he's going toe to toe with the Hulk when he's the strongest and most dangerous that he's ever been. Hermiod (talk) 19:23, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to comics. Pairadox (talk) 21:42, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

And therein lies the problem with writing encyclopedic articles about comic books, often written by people with less education than a plumber (odd but true). If there is a variance in power levels, we avoid making specific comparisons and aim for the middle ground, noting that his power level fluctuates. Am I missing how this article will collapse without providing a specificity that Marvel itself doesn't feel beholden to supply? - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 06:58, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Wonder Man's ass kicked by Korg?

In World War Hulk, Wonder Man appears to be easily defeated by Korg the Kronan.

Wonder man had always been portrayed as a powerhouse yet Korge takes him out in a couple of panels. Did this fight go on longer than the comic portrayed or is Korg a mega powerhouse? or was Wonder Man having an off day? If Korg is that tough why did a whole spacehip full of them run away rom Thor when they were trying to conquer the Earth?

213.122.64.74 (talk) 20:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)Dale

Secret Invasion

Why was the Secret Invasion section removed? [1] It is the most drastic revision of that edit and yet it isn't covered by the edit summary. (Emperor (talk) 23:30, 26 September 2008 (UTC))

Well, I didn't remove it but it is veeery poorly written. I own all the SI issues and it still makes little sense. Lots42 (talk) 05:49, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

That's perhaps a tad harsh, but yes, it needs a lot of work. That aside, the simple fact that Wonder Man appears in the storyline isn't enough. Dozens of characters appear in crossovers all the time. If Wonder Man performed some feat - such as being the one to defeat the Skrull invasion - then that would be noteworthy. Because these are meant to be encyclopedia standard articles, we only go with what is truly significant and then only the necessary elaboration as there is a great deal of information to be managed.

Asgardian (talk) 09:31, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

That is an argument for not including it on the Secret Invasion article - that is, after all, his fictional character biography and he is depicted having a role in the storyline. I agree with Lots42 that it needed editing and looks like it could be trimmed down but it seems worthy of inclusion. (Emperor (talk) 16:06, 29 September 2008 (UTC))

Using a redirect?

Really, what's this mean? I don't understand anything in this edit. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 15:50, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Recents edits

These changes don't quite make sense. The lead was fine as it was in accordance with WP:CMC/X, and I don't agree with the undiscussed removal of the categories. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the WP:CMC/X states either way is acceptable got a lead. That said, keep it the way it is. In a sense it isn't going to matter as the rest of the article has to be rewritten per the correct direction for articles. AS for links, we need to pair these down to just the core connections, not dubious ones that may have suited for a time. In fact, I'm going to suggest many of these links are culled as they are unnecessary and confuse the issue. Asgardian (talk) 13:08, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

But you still haven't explained why your lead is any better than the one I put up. Yours doesn't even mention that he is a superhero (there's no real reason to avoid that). Inclusively, WP:OCAT doesn't seem to be a problem here. Unless of course, there are categories placed here that are unsupported by the article's context. If so, which ones? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:19, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi Wikipedia crew there's a vandal/spite edit currently present Jasper Vee (talk) 18:13, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_(arts)

a character is always fictional so can you remove the "fictional" word ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.248.170.125 (talk) 09:34, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

See WP:WAF. We're supposed to make fiction clear to viewers, it is actually better off as it is. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:25, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

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