Talk:Women in the Quran

Hi! We are a team of three students from Colgate University working on a research and editing project for our Woman in Islam class. Our goals are to add more secondary source commentary for each figure presented in this article. Klatta92 (talk) 16:08, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Women and Islam

This is the real hadith: Where the husband beats his wife the matter is not so serious. Many women have come to the family of Muhammad, complaining about their husbands. Those (husbands) are not the best among you. [Abu Daawood] (Source:http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=9712&Option=FatwaId) The reason why the brackets (husband) is because in Arabic there is a male and female word for the word "those".

There are many translations of the Quran; however you have chosen to quote the only well known translation that has the 'softer approach' to dealing with women. Here's the Yusef translation and two others (same surah/ayah):

4:34:

Yusef: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Pickthal: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Shakir: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Yusef has made translation errors, which I wont put here. Mohammad has also stated things like "No man will be asked why he beat his wife." and regarding women complaining that their husbands beat them, he stated "Those are not the best among you." Were these also misquoted?!!

I do not believe that 4:34 should be changed.

Rach 06:54, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the Ayah 4:34: When Allah(swt) says to 'beat' you wives this is mistranslated. Someone should change the Ayah to:

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.” For more information go to: Islam Tomorrow [09:44, 5 June 2006 Farouk92]

004.034

YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

I do not see that as a mistranslation. The words in brackets have been added by Yusufali - who is of course preaching to a Western audience who might not want to know Islam teaches the beating of women. But it is clear from all three what it means. It does not say "guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior". It says "nushuz" which means "rebellion" or the like. So the passage says, if you fear, notice it is fear not if she does, disobedience on the part of your wife, tell her off, try a bit of emotional cruelty and beat her - in no particular order. All at once if you like. Lao Wai 10:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't thin this should be merged.

The other article is about women in Muslim society, which is not the same thing as Quran. Furthermore, women in quran can also talk of female figures (like mary and asyia) that women in Islam couldn't talk of.Bless sins 11:11, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Vint 03:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Surely there should be some mention of the full 4:34 here? "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill­conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great."

It's a pretty vital one for women, no? Bert Preast 19:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll put it in as a continuation of the financial bit. Not really where it belongs, but I'm new here and major changes scare me. Bert Preast 19:19, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I took the "domestic behavior" part of 4:34 out of the Financial rights section, and placed it within the Right to Safety? category that I just created. But I also included a link to the former section within the latter, in order for one to read the whole verse (if need be) as opposed to just parts of it. Silver crescent 01:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a very good an interesting article, although I feel it is slightly biased towards putting the Quran in a good light with regards to women's rights. Maybe Im wrong though... --Burgas00 12:52, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I made the "Right to Safety" section a little more neutral, by adding Shakir and Pickthall's translations of 4:34, instead of only leaving Yusuf Ali's "more tolerant" interpretation there. Aside from that, I personally don't find the rest of the Rights of Women category within the article, to be biased in favor of the Quran in some manner. In the sections relating to inheritance and bearing witness (for example), it's stated that individuals criticize the fact or belief that the ratio is 2:1 on a female to male basis. Even in regards to divorce, the man seems to have somewhat of an upper hand. Following these statements are interpretive responses and explanations of certain Islamic scholars. So not only are some gender based imbalances within the Quran revealed in the article, but both sides have a say. At least that's the way that I see it. Silver crescent 01:49, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Burgas00 is correct in my view - the article is biased towards putting the Qur'an in a good light with regards to women's rights. For example under Womens rights -there is no mention of the Cairo variant of the Human Rights convention - which exludes the 'equal rights for women' that is part of the main human rights convention - the Cairo variant is used by Qur'an-influenced countries. anon 18 October 2006

To Silver Crescent - I don't understand the basis of why you reverted the section on marriage - you went back to a paragraph that fails to make clear the different rights men and woman have in marriage - uses unclear language. Eg, this sounds vague: "Although, the Quran does give the husband the primary responsibility to dissolve his marriage.." - is that not a right (that the woman does not have), so why do you revert to 'responsibility'?

According to the sources that I placed within parts of the divorce section ([1] and [2]), a woman may dissolve her marriage through a court or "Khula" (under certain circumstances). So although the husband "usually" has the authority to end the union, on certain occasions the wife can do the same as well. I'll change 'responsibility' to the word 'right', in order to make the sentence sound a little more balanced. Silver crescent 01:12, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Disputed

If the wife of Imram is the mother of Mary who gave birth to Jesus, this means that Mary is Moses's sister. Imram clearly is the Biblical Amram, father of Moses. Sure, this misidentification is embarassing for some Muslims but that's no reason to falsify the facts as they are. Therefore this article has been tagged disputed. Str1977 ^(talk) 00:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Please keep your OR to yourself. I have provided the Encyclopaedia of Islam as a source. You have provided none. Also please don't use the Bible as a benchmark for history, that is quite POV.Bless sins (talk) 00:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Haha, quite funny. You call the Bible POV but call on "Christian tradition" for a name that doesn't appear in the Quran. Remember, the article is called "Female figures IN THE QURAN".

Also, it is you who are engaging in OR. You refer to the EoI but that doesn't justify your splitting Imran into two persons. Str1977 ^(talk) 07:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

There is no evidence that there are two Imrans. There is evidence that there is one Imran, and his wife has been given a section. There is evidence that the mother of Moses existed, and she has also been given a section. I don't know why you insist upon confusing history.Bless sins (talk) 15:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, there is no evidence that there are two Imrans. I agree that there is only one Imran. His name is the Arabic parallel to the Hebrew Amram, father of Mirjam, Aaron and Moses. Hence his wife is the mother of Moses. That the Quran apparently conflates Mirjam, sister of Moses, with Mirjam/Mary, mother of Jesus might be reason to engage in exegetical gymnastics (such as supposing that Jesus' maternal grandfather was called Imran/Amram) and if eminent scholars on Islam or the Quran do that we should REPORT it. REPORT, not endorse, not make it seem like these are facts. Str1977 ^(talk) 16:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

"His name is the Arabic parallel to the Hebrew Amram, father of Mirjam, Aaron and Moses." Such claims are not warranted without sources. The Islamic narrative diverges from the Judeo-Christian narrative (for example in the case of Eve, or Abraham).

Sure we should report the facts (as presented by reliable sources). Where are your reliable sources?Bless sins (talk) 17:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The entire contention seems to be based upon the OR conclusion that there cannot be two separate people named Imran. Is that the sole basis for the {{totallydisputed}} tag? ITAQALLAH 19:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

In Arabic it is 'Imrān while the father of Aaron and Moses is Amram according to the Bible. No where in the Qur'an you see Moses as contemporaneous with Jesus; clearly they were in different eras. Not every Mary is the mother of Jesus. Kabad (talk) 11:31, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Rename

Could we redirect this article to Women in the Qur'an? That'll be more in keeping with other topics of this nature, such as Women in Islam or Women in the Bible. Unless there is a specific reason for us to use "female figures"? --Leviel (talk) 15:49, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

• Since nobody reacted here, I made a bold move. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:14, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Can this be inserted here?

The Quran says: "O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly the most honored of you in God’s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware (Quran 49:13). , .

Austerlitz -- 88.75.202.138 (talk) 15:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

performing either to ten years of work

"performing either to ten years of work" doesn’t make sense to me. Should it be "performing ten years of work"? ϢereSpielChequers 09:44, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Names with #Meaning vs #WhiteLabel Names ~ OED etymology

Multiple women and named in the primary text of the Al Quran. Christian Translators insist native american (running bull) and foreigner names giving life purpose and meaning are not acceptable and not real human #whitelabel names. WhiteLabel names break with history and dictionaries and declare determine and define yourself author your own social status and story. Brand Identify Control vs Meaningful History. https://yousafali011.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/muslim-girls-names-from-quran/

Ui Neil Mahmuod Elmontaser Cidi Almasri Sandage (talk) 02:43, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Qur'an or Quran?

This article uses both "Qur'an" and "Quran". The latter is in the article's title. Should the usage be consistent throughout the article? WikiProject:Islam recommends "Quran". – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:00, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Jonesey95, Point taken,I made uniform the dictation of "Quran" by this edit.Saff V. (talk) 07:53, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

"Moses's mother is the only woman in the Quran to receive divine inspiration"

Isn't this incorrect as Maryam is given miracles by God and spoken to by Gabriel?--Zaynab1418 (talk) 02:55, 30 October 2021 (UTC)