Talk:Wings (Bonnie Tyler album)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 17:48, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

• "which led to even more success with her fourteenth studio album": we haven't heard about any success for her fourteenth studio album, so this doesn't really work. I assume you mean that it improved sales of the album. How about: "In January 2004, Tyler was number one in France with her bilingual song "Si demain... (Turn Around)", which boosted sales of her then-current studio album Simply Believe."

 Done That sentence works much better! Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:10, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

• Footnote 3 refers to a BBC Wales programme called "In One Voice". How did you access this -- is there a URL that could be supplied, even if it's behind a paywall, to let a reader verify the information?

A clip of this broadcast has been put on YouTube, though it's not in the public domain. View it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGIFq_9mNhc Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:13, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I haven't run into this situation before; do you know if that means that we can't include the link? If you don't know I'll ask around. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Sometimes I have been allowed to use YouTube links if there is absolutely no other form of proof. Strangely, this TV show isn't very famous, here's another link which includes the end credits - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYxI7RXN1AE I think asking around would probably be wise, I don't know what's best to do. Bonnietylersave (talk) 23:18, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

From the answer at WT:GAN it's fine as is. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:13, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

• "Celebrate was released at the end of the following year in the United Kingdom, but was even less successful than Wings was. The re-release omitted the French versions of the two singles." This is confusing: we haven't been told that Wings wasn't successful. And which was re-released: Celebrate or Wings? Aha -- this is the UK version of the album we're talking about, not the single release of "Celebrate". Can you rephrase to make it clearer what's going on here? Given the existences of the single, I don't think you can use Celebrate with no explanation to refer to the UK release version, and in fact you don't even mention the UK release in the first section. I know it's in the lead, but the lead is a summary of what's in the body, so the explanation needs to be repeated in the body.

 Done I changed it to "Wings was released in the United Kingdom under the title Celebrate in 2006. The UK version omitted the French versions of the two singles." Hopefully this will make things a bit clearer. Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:16, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Much clearer. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

• "Subsequent releases include...": I'm not sure what this refers to. Subsequent releases of Wings? Apparently not, because this includes a DVD. All Tyler's subsequent releases of music? Surely not; there's no reason to list them all. Can you clarify?

"Subsequent releases" may be a poor choice of words on my behalf. Would it be better to say that those releases are "related" to the album? The CD (and two versions of the DVD) were recorded during a European tour of Wings. Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:19, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

That's certainly better, but your explanation here -- "recorded during a European tour of Wings" -- would be helpful in the article too, since that explains exactly how they're related. Any more details (e.g. the DVD includes x number of songs from Wings, or is entirely songs from Wings, or whatever is the case) would help the reader. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I will add those details straight after replying to these comments. Bonnietylersave (talk) 23:19, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

• 'Lorraine Crosby, who recorded the female vocals on Meat Loaf's international hit "I'd Do Anything For Love (But I Won't Do That)".' I'd cut the explanation of who Crosby is -- it's not relevant to this article, as far as I can see, and a reader can click through to her article if interested. Or is there something specific about her vocals in that song (other than that it was well received) that led to her being asked to sing on this album?

 Done Bonnie and Lorraine were friends, the Meat Loaf collaboration in 1993 had no impact on their duet. I have removed that text. Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:20, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

• ["Louise"] "was then officially released ahead of Celebrate on 19 June, 2006", but you give the release date of Celebrate as 26 May 2006 in the infobox.

 Done I don't know why I had put the date of Celebrate (album) release as May... I think it was because the review from Glasswerk Magazine said it was due to be released on that date in May. It's common practice to go with the most reliable source on Wikipedia, as I've learned, which would be AllMusic, who state that it was released on 12 June 2006. I've adjusted the sentence accordingly. Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:27, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

• "an episode of On Show": since On Show isn't linked, I think it needs an explanatory phrase -- "which focused on contemporary music" or something like that.

Would you suggest that go in brackets, or between dashes, e.g. "—which focused on contemporary music—"? Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:28, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, what was the show exactly? An interview show? A music documentary series? Parenthetical commas or an attributive phrase would work, I'd think, but if you can tell me more about the show we can figure out how best to phrase it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

The show was a documentary of sorts, promoting the upcoming album. I became aware of it after it was re-broadcast on BBC Wales in 2013, the day before Bonnie appeared at the Eurovision Song Contest. Whether this was a one-off TV show or whether they also produced episodes for other celebrities, I do not know... as I've said before, it's another rare find. Bonnietylersave (talk) 23:21, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Given the information we have, I don't see how to improve the description, so I've left it as is. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:21, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

• There are a couple of uncited sentences in the first body section, and another in the "Television and touring" section.

I've added sources to all the unsourced sentences I can find, I do hope I haven't missed one. Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:38, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Just one left: "Tyler had two touring bands between 2004 and 2006; her regular band that she first formed in the 1990s, and a French band that toured Wings with her". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I will find a reference for that now. Removed the "DONE" tick until I find one. Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:23, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I have found a podcast episode that has Tyler tell the interviewer about her two bands. A legal link no longer exists, as Madpod (the podcasting company) seems to have deleted a lot of their old podcasts from their server and updated their website a few times since 2006. I cannot access the website on the Wayback Machine to use that archive as a reference due to robots.txt - check the reference, though, and if you think it's suitable, then it's sorted! (The podcast episode is easily accessible online - on YouTube for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSL4zOQNOUk - but it's another copyright infringement). Bonnietylersave (talk) 00:16, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:26, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

• "The album's lead single, "Louise" was first released as a promotional single in 2005": I don't see this information in the given source.

I had to use the same source I used for the "Celebrate" promo single, FreeCovers.net. Unfortunately, that's the highest quality source I can find, as those releases are incredibly rare. Will this do? Bonnietylersave (talk) 20:42, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm in two minds what to do about that. I've posted a note at WT:GAN about this and the YouTube question above; go ahead and comment there if you like, but I just wanted you to be aware of the discussion. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:12, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Ah thank you, hopefully someone will be able to offer some help. It's frustrating with "rare details" like this, because it's common knowledge among Bonnie Tyler fans, but it's not been very well documented. Bonnietylersave (talk) 23:23, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Judging from the answer at WT:GAN, we can't use freecovers.net as a source, but we can use the CDs themselves. I think you can do this even if you don't have a physical copy of the CD yourself, since the freecovers.net image demonstrates that it really exists. However, does this mean that you can't source the release dates? If so, unfortunately I think they should go -- with a note on the talk page asking for a reliable source if one turns up. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:30, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

 DoneI have removed the information about the promotional releases - I suppose they aren't imperative information. I will add the comments in the Talk page - I have friends who own the promo singles, but there probably isn't any info on their release dates. Perhaps someone will come forward one day. Bonnietylersave (talk) 01:07, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

That fixes it. I hate to have you remove information but I think it's the right answer. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:16, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Images are OK; sources seem good to me. Couldn't check much for close paraphrasing but what I looked at was OK. I'll place this on hold. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:44, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello! You have no idea how grateful I am that someone has finally taken on this article. It's been a rocky ride of reviewers who have abandoned the page. I will go through each of your points, add comments where necessary, and complete the tasks listed. Thank you again! Liam (Bonnietylersave) (talk) 20:04, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Okay so, 40 minutes later and I've addressed most of the points, some I'm awaiting response over. It seems this review will be dealt with quickly. Liam (Bonnietylersave) (talk) 20:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Looking good. Once we get the two questions I posted to WT:GAN resolved I can pass this. Sorry it had to wait so long. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:12, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Everything is fixed; I'm passing this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:16, 1 January 2015 (UTC)