Talk:William Hung/Archive 1

Archive 1

Comments

He has an obivious accent he isnt americanized yet. Chinese American newspapers like the World Journal use that name, just as they use it for native Americans Michelle Kwan and Iris Chang. The native names of Lieberman and Albright should be used if the subject is fully fluent in the relevant language. It is wrong to imply that he was born with that name and no longer uses it. That's simply not true. The Chinese media uses that name - that's how we learned about it! [1] --Jiang 06:26, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Bill Clinton has a Chinese name in World Journal and so does Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Elvis Presley, and Prime Minister Tony Blair, but their Chinese names aren't being placed in the beginning paragraphs of their page. So why should Asian Americans have ethnic names in their description?:

Yeah Bill Clinton's Chinese name will be used in the Chinese wikipedia, and behind it will/should be written (English: William J Clinton) etc. Same for every other language. 203.218.87.69 06:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The native names of Lieberman and Albright should be used.

Well, I would find that offensive, unless they gave their permission to do so.

...if the subject is fully fluent in the relevant language.

Okay, then I agree, and only if the language has some particular relevance to them. For example, it probably wouldn't be appropriate to list Michael Jordan's French name, even if he could speak perfect French. But it might be appropriate to list a Canadian politician's name in French.

This is an English Encyclopedia. It is inappropriate to list Michael Jordan's French name except in the French version of Wikipedia unless he was given a French name at birth. Native names, however, are important biographic info. (see more discussion below) Kowloonese 10:31, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

The Chinese media uses that name - that's how we learned about it!

The Chinese print media uses Chinese characters for everyone's name, even if it's an English name like Bill Clinton or George Bush. And if you notice, they will usually put "William Hung" in pathentheses after his Chinese name. Why? Because he's better known by his English name, and the Chinese characters are there for people who can't or don't read English. 66.63.126.171 06:42, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I tend to agree with Jiang on this one, but 66... has one point -- we should at least put (Chinese:xxx) instead of just (xxx) for the Chinese name. It would at least point out that it is Chinese, instead of just assuming it now. Fuzheado 06:45, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Why is (Chinese:xxx) better than (xxx) other than crowding the page? Those who can read the native text know what they are. Those who cannot read the native text wouldn't care what they are. Kowloonese 10:31, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

I tend to believe that the level of emphasis that should be placed on the person's Chinese name should vary with the degree of "Chineseness" they still display. For example, the Lucy Liu and Gary Locke articles (both of whom are American born) appropriately place their Chinese names after the first paragraph, with the phrase "His/Her Chinese name is...". 66.63.126.171 07:04, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I disagree. The additional name is put there for identity purpose, not an emphasis. If Lucy Liu's Chinese name is insignificant to some people (e.g. the Chinese community), no one would have known her Chinese name in the first place. Even if Lucy Liu does not speak a word of Chinese, her Chinese name is still significant when future scholars want to research on how the Chinese community documented her impact to the Chinese society or the lack of. Perhaps her grandparents who may not speak a word of English had told an exclusive story about her on a Chinese newspaper. If you say her Chinese name is insignificant, you are just shutting out the native source of research material. The person's Chineseness has nothing to do with whether he/she is known by his/her native name. By the same argument, Marco Polo's Chinese name is a significant piece of information because without it no one can verify if he was really in China. One will NEVER find the name "Marco Polo" spelt in any Chinese historical document. The Chineseness of Marco Polo (the person) will not change the significance of his Chinese name.

Good point, but "Chineseness" is a pretty hard thing to pin down, and what degrees of it do we measure? Now William Hung is not the best example of this, because he was born and lived in HK before going to CA, so the argument could definitely be made for putting his name up top. However, there are indeed Chinese American actors or celebrities who don't identify much at all with their Chinese roots, who would not really care for or like the Chinese names next to them. Fuzheado 07:13, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Fine, fine, I agree. I guess I'm not really that familiar with William Hung and overestimated his Americanness. So you can put his Chinese name back up top. 66.63.126.171 07:30, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I am responsible for causing this controversy. I put the Chinese text in the article. When the Chinese name is next to his name in paranthesis, it is NOT an emphasis. It is just like John Doe (aka Jack Doe ... etc). The use of paranthesis around the name means it was meant as a side note, definitely NOT an emphasis. I would have used boldface for an emphasis. If you add a special sentence to just mention his Chinese name, then I'll call that an emphasis even without the boldface.

By the way you got the Simplified wrong. Fixed it now. Also changed the order of the "Chineses" because Trad. is used in HK and he speaks Cantonese not Mandarin. 203.218.87.69 06:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The reason why William Hung's Chinese name was added and rightfully belong to the article is that it IS his native name regardless of what he is known as in this country. If Joe Lieberman was given a Hebrew name at birth, then his native Hebrew name SHOULD be mentioned along with his popular English name. Of course, if he kept his Hebrew name private, it is not necessary to mention it. Just like George Bush is our president's native name regardless how he is called by the Chinese newspaper or even if he emigrates to China. William Hung was born in Hong Kong. That means he had a life and some history there before he moved to the US and became known to the Americans. An encyclepedia article should contain information that will help future scholars to do further research on the subject. Names and aliases fall in that catagory. The native name, e.g. William's Chinese name, is especially significant for an article about any person. By knowing William's Chinese name, people may be able to dig up his birth certificate or school reports from Hong Kong, or interview his friends back there etc. There may be 20 thousand William Hungs in Hong Kong, knowing the Chinese name of this particular William do help in identifying him from all the others.

Honestly, if someone finds his own native name distasteful, no one would have known about it except his own mother. For example, there is absolutely no reference to Vera Wang's Chinese name anywhere on the Internet because she either doesn't use one or keeps it private. Yet William's Chinese name was printed everywhere.

BTW, William Hung IS NOT called "William Hung" in Chinese. What do you think those funny characters are if you truly believe he is called "William Hung" in Chinese? His Chinese name is HUNG Hing Cheung, not "HUNG Wil Liam". What you said doesn't make any sense at all. Kowloonese 09:43, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

The above-above-mentioned has a weird line of logic. He is offended when Hung's Chinese name is being used. Does being "more Chinese" (whatever it means) take away from one being American? Why can't someone be 100% Chinese and 100% American at the same time? Or 100% Jew and 100% American, for that matter? What's wrong with the two co-existing at the same time? Strange. Mandel 19:34, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

This type of logic is common for people who cannot tell apart ethnicity vs nationality. These are the same people who believe all Chinese Americans spy for China. William Hung may be a spy from Hong Kong!!! Kowloonese 20:23, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Believe it or not: William Hung is the 81st-generation descendant of Confucius. (His ancestor used to give harsh criticism to off-tune music, and would certainly not have approved of the path to publicity Hing Cheong has chosen for himself)--Changcheng

Where did you get this info? --Jiang 05:49, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

William did recognize himself so. The point for us is to confirm it.

There's somewhere which shows the (main) descendents of Confucious and one of them included as an external link in the Wikipedia entry. They have the same middle name ("Hing" 慶 for William's case) in the same generation.

According to that table, William should be the 73rd-generation descendent of Confucious if his name follows the rule, and what we have to do is find out whether his father's name follows the rule or not (For this case the elder Hung's middle name should be "Hin" 憲) and if it is so, the fact is said to be confirmed, and should be added to the article.

Patrickov 11:36, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I heard on the news that he is making a Christmas album. Anyone has details? Kowloonese 22:25, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

what about an abstract at the beginning of the article? it's a bit lengthy to read before you actually get what this guy is about

I am an Asian male, I cannot stand how my race is being mocked and how this WH guy just takes it with a bucktooth grin.

I insist on removing his Chinese name from this text because it is THOROUGHLY irrelevant. He is not a recent immigrant of the United States (in fact, came here in 1993, went to HS and college here) and neither is he an international student on a VISA. He auditioned for American Idol while performing a Ricky Martin song - not a Chinese song and neither is he performing any form of great feat the emphasizes or even includes any form of Chinese culture. Any mention of his Chinese name is just IRRELEVENT, not necessarily offensive or racist.

Actually, it may not be as irrelevant as you claim -- after all, William Hung starred in the Cantonese film "My Crazy Mother" (see http://imdb.com/title/tt0431940/), and although the IMDB page shows his English name, I'm sure that his Chinese name is listed in the Chinese credits for the film. But regardless of this, I don't think there's anything racist about his Chinese name being on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.152.181.97 (talk) 01:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

The fact that he chose to use only his english name in a chinese-language film shows that he only identifies himself by his english name. There is no reference to him identifying as a chinese person. There is also no indication that he even speaks chinese. I am removing the chinese names. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.142.200.18 (talk) 20:23, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Simon's Line

i have the video and will gladly send it to ANYONE to prove that he says "what do you want me to say?". I seriously doubt anyone who says they have an audio or video clip of the audition does if they say its anything else. if you want the clip, just ask. It is kind of futile making a correct edit to wikipedia when people keep changing it back. So you made a mistake, who cares... let the wikipedia be correct. Your pride has nothing to do with it. It's not a mere coincidence that random people have made the same edit.

In this case, please use the Edit summary and provide links to published sources. Otherwise, questionable edits by IP addresses are often automatically reverted since these tend to be vandalism.--Jiang 02:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

This is very much a case in which there isn't real documentation except in copyrighted video/audio clips. I will search for a publication, though. This has to be just one of those times where everyone comes to a mutual agreement.--marv3fan

Found documentation at http://www.thinksmart.com/home/good_morning.html, right hand frame, second down.

Date

Initial fame: "His audition was the final one on the January 27, 2009 installation, the coup de grâce of an hour-long episode that showcased other would-be pop stars, mostly lacking in talent."

2009? --68.35.207.220 00:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for asking us, instead of using your own brain.

Picture

Can someone please replace that ridiculous picture and put in a decent one? Thanks! --Tuspm 12:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that was vandalism. I've reverted it. -- MisterHand 14:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Kudos to that picture, the cropping on those specific letters in the sign is a nice touch... Jeff schiller 18:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Beets?

Is there any truth to the rumor that William Hung's favorite food is beets? Okonkwo68.38.127.139 18:08, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

"Harold, eat your beets." (Harold and Maude)

Did he get ripped off?

If they paid him $25,000 then sold 195,000 CDs didn't he get ripped off? I don't know how much normal singers get but a dollar seems logical, he was shorted 170 grand!!!

He was payed 25,000 to sing at an event. Learn to read.

Where the irony is ?

"There is a degree of irony in the situation"

Hey, how about we let the readers decide where the irony is. It's like saying, "Here's a funny joke: two men walk down the road." Tell the joke and then let everyone decide if it is funny.

This needs to be reworded. BTW, irony is in the beholder, not in a situation.--The burning bush 00:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

• First of all, you mean "in the eye of the beholder". Secondly, kindly look up situational irony. 192.5.109.49 (talk) 15:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

Somebody came through and made a lot of stupid edits, mostly along the lines of "American Idol Sucks Balls." Got that all cleared out, I think...if you find any I missed, zap 'em. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.126.163.20 (talk) 00:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

You could have just reverted to the last edit. But this works too. -- KBW1 06:37, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Pasadena City College

What is this about William Hung choosing to go to Pasadena City College? This is neither well known nor cited. I think this may be a result of vandalism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.135.40.75 (talk) 05:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

Not sure about this; but according to several current PCC students, William Hung is attending Pasadena City College. I'm not too surprised by this revelation though; although Hung attended Berkeley and appears to be the stereotypical Asian nerd, he wasn't really all that good of a student. I actually had a couple of friends who were classmates of William Hung, and they told me that he was definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed.

I'm a current PCC student, and I can confirm he goes to this school. My brother had a symbolic logic class with him in the spring. I can also confirm that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. --Falkan 19:25, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Symbolic logic is way harder than Aristotelian logic though, and lots of people in my S logic class didn't understand it either :P 24.56.247.13 (talk) 01:43, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

It would makes sense that he would attend city college in order to fulfill the transfer requirements to attend Cal State Northridge (which he is attending now). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.80.180.10 (talk) 08:23, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Triva section

I am going to seriously NUKE that section. PLEASE only add back material that includes a source/reference, thanks!! --Tom 16:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you have gone a bit too far here. I always applaud the deletion of vandalism. Some of the information you have deleted, however, is useful and benign. I see no policy rational that warrants the extent to which you've deleted others' seemingly well intentioned contributions. Much of the article is unsourced. Rather than "nuking" the harmless material that could be beneficial, why not try finding sources? Cleo123 06:03, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Point taken, except, if I come here, and I read the trivia, without sources, how do I know its true? As far as the rest of the article goes, I would like to remove ALL of the unsourced material but will hold off. Please feel free to undo any of my deletions but I would hope you could find sources for the material so as to improve the quality of the article and of this project. Thanks! --Tom 19:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Dead?

ive heard rumors he killed himself.. done some research and appearently its a popular rumor.. anyone know? Big texas lump 02:41, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

He is still alive, this is merely an internet rumour. --Royalmate1 (talk) 15:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, why does the page say he's dead? There's absolutely no citation on this and Snopes has even disproved it. And his 'age' is all wrong as well. Quite sloppy for a protected page. 210.195.58.153 (talk) 10:45, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

William Hung site

Site is down, so I removed it:

• williamhung.net, includes video and audio clip of Hung's performance

Travb (talk) 09:54, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand.

Why did William Hung gain notoriety? Why was William Hung put on television, why did William Hung get a record deal, why do people know his name? Because he was a bad singer by almost all standards; it's as simple as that. People enjoy the novelty of hearing a bad singer butcher a song, which is why the initial episodes of American Idol are so popular, after all. And yet, the sentence I keep adding in the intro saying something like "in the tradition of Florence Foster Jenkins, he is a fine example of a celebrity who has gained fame not through his talent, but through his lack of talent" keeps getting deleted. I'm having trouble understanding why a fact vital to understanding William Hung's presence in American culture, and not stressed anywhere else in the article, warrants deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.71.29.77 (talk) 21:31, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Because no matter how convinced you are of your own opinions, they are not facts. Only verifiable facts belong in an entry, not your opinions, regardless of how strongly you believe them or how widely shared they are. Now, if you can find a source that coincides with your opinion, you could quote from it and cite it.64.222.94.132 (talk) 19:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Is it accurate to say Hung became "famous" because of his bad singing? Wouldn't we say "infamous"? 66.183.40.151 (talk) 22:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Student Life

I don't know how he was while at UC Berkeley or now that he is at CSU Northridge, but while he was at Pasadena City College he was rude and very stuck up. it amazes me that an untalented overweight nerd can develope into a stuck up elitist —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lacerpasadena (talk • contribs) 22:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Jealous much? 24.224.182.97 (talk) 04:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

HAHA so it was really him! I dont bother him because am sure it gotten pretty old the whole American Idol crap....just let him be. Am sure you be tired if all you hear everyday was "sing for me hung" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.42.197.79 (talk) 23:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Article Photo

Is that William Hung in the photo holding the guns? How cute... He looks more handsome than ever! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.168.194.17 (talk) 06:22, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Perpetuating Racial Stereotypes

perpetuate this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_weFDnvYUM and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOROsJyNqrA 24.56.247.13 (talk) 01:48, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I find this section of the article to be a complete insult to William Hung. No matter what the Asian population feels about stereotypes, he is a person...with all those "stereotypes". To say that you don't want an actual true person to represent you because you are embarrased of him is just wrong. 76.112.196.104 (talk) 14:01, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Blue Jays

Article linked to is dated May 30, 2004. The Wikipedia article says 2003. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.245.16.164 (talk) 04:13, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Pending changes

This article is one of a number selected for the early stage of the trial of the Wikipedia:Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Wikipedia:Pending changes/Queue are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.

The following request appears on that page:

Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Pending changes" would be appreciated.

Please update the Queue page as appropriate.

Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 00:39, 17 June 2010 (UTC).

Edit request from 68.3.231.49, 30 September 2011

under album sales...19,400 should be 194,000 68.3.231.49 (talk) 06:36, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Funandtrvl (talk) 21:34, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

He use that hard hard work and Perseverance

Merge from Inspiration

Just to recap - that album isn't notable in and of itself just because it's William Hung performing it. It's famous for being bad, just like he is, but other than that it doesn't warrant its own article. A merge, in my opinion, would be a better idea. LazyBastardGuy 14:07, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Here's my take on a potential merge:

His first album was titled Inspiration. It was recorded over a March 2004 weekend with Hung singing vocals over karaoke music. To promote it, Hung performed before nearly 20,000 fans during half-time at a Golden State Warriors game on April 6 and performed "She Bangs", included on the album, on such shows as The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. The album received highly negative reviews, but ultimately went on to sell 194,000 copies.

LazyBastardGuy 15:15, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Changed my mind, going through with it anyway - album article PRODed for deletion LazyBastardGuy 15:51, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Too many images

When I first came to this page, the body of the article had about 6-7 images on it. Now a very large article this may be fine, but some guy with a relatively small body of text, does that warrant that many images? I cut it down to 3 total on the article (1 header + 2 body) and now I am being reverted. Can someone chime in? C6541 (Talk ↔ Contribs) 20:38, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2014

If he is still alive, Why do you show a date of death???? Does anyone review these things?

70.108.243.179 (talk) 17:51, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Done I've reverted that most recent edit that added that information. Thank you for your contributions to the English Wikipedia. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 17:56, 18 February 2014 (UTC)