Talk:William Cantelo

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A fact from William Cantelo appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 24 August 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that William Cantelo invented an early machine gun, then mysteriously disappeared?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/William Cantelo.

Wikipedia

Birthday

Please check the birthday, currently it reads 1938, maybe it should be 1838?

Yeah - my fingers don't like me typing 18-- so I put in the wrong year! violet/riga _^[talk] 12:33, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He was actually born around 1830, not 1838. Questors (talk) 17:43, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The 1881 census here (subscription needed, but it may be on other sites) has him born in Carisbrooke, IoW, aged 51 (so, born c.1829/30). He's shown as a "steam engine lathe and capstan maker", living at 22 Orchard St, Southampton, with wife Eliza Mary Cantelo, and children William Rupert and John Harry. I know that's probably not acceptable as a source, but may help future searches for information. But, birth records show that there was a William Cantelo born in the IoW in 1838. Presumably, either there were two people of the same name (possible, as different branches of a family tended to use common names), or the 1881 census has his age out by eight years (also possible). Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:04, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Great research thanks! violet/riga _^[talk] 12:33, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Might it be wise to note this is a fictitious character? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Forester222 (talk • contribs) 18:03, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He isn't fictional, but if you were given that impression we might need to further clarify things. violet/riga _^[talk] 18:09, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing

The sources used can't really be regarded as satisfactory. The date of Cantelo's disappearance, for example, seems not be better identified than "early 1880s". Charles Matthews (talk) 06:42, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In this context, this page seems interesting (close the printer window). There is clearly some better documentation of Cantelo out there. Charles Matthews (talk) 06:59, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, see [1] for the original publication of the Roy Andrews ref. The Isle of Wight Cantelos are a large and complicated family, and there are other Williams. I would be happier if this Cantelo was more clearly identified. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:23, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This copy of a Southampton directory of 1859 gives William Cantelo of 30 French Street, agreeing with the address in Andrews. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:26, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Directory of 1884, Google Books snippets], William Cantelo is still included as Engineer of 22 Bargate Street, the address of the Old Tower Inn. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:35, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cantelo, W. of 22 Bargate Street on a subscriber list of a book from 1883. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:38, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This directory, p. 372, which may be from 1868, shows William Cantelow (note spelling) of 22 Bargate Street, "engineer, lathe and tool maker". There is at least one more directory at http://www.plimsoll.org showing Cantelo. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This 1881 announcement (in the opening paragraph) refers to "Bargate Street, formerly Orchard Street". So, it looks as though 22 Bargate Street and 22 Orchard Street are one and the same place. The 1881 census records (see my earlier thread), and the findings you've made, therefore seem to match up. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:02, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PS: There is a photo of the Old Tower Inn, Orchard Street (later Bargate Street) here, with some notes on its history. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks, no inconsistency found so far. But there was another William Cantelo, who was in business in New York, who was perhaps more likely to have been known to Maxim. (I don't find the Cantelo=Maxim tale at all plausible, but my views are of course not the point.)

This directory gives Cantelo William of 14 Chantry Road, "engineer and machinist", and Cantelo Wm. Jun. "engineer" of 21 Anderson's Road. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:08, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Does that directory have a date? I couldn't see one. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:22, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Nor I. It's apparently a partial digitisation job leaving out some pages (ugh). I have just found a listing page at http://www.plimsoll.org/Southampton/streetdirectories/ which may help. The "street directory" and "commercial directory" sections may be separate postings. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:43, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the links from the listing page give access to various sections of the directories. 1863: Cantelo, William, engineer and machinist, resident at 30 French Street, [2] at p. 91. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:51, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At 30 French Street in 1871 and at 22 Orchard Street in 1876. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:58, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

PS: The 1871 census has him aged 41, "engineer and machinist", living with wife Eliza and four children - Emmelia, William, John and Adelaide - at 30 French Street. WP:NOR - good fun though. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:08, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]