Talk:William Atherton (plantation owner)

Untitled

In need of a bracket at the end of the title of this article

Slave owner

I had a skim read through, you've added lots of good content! Plantation owners were ghastly fellows who ordered beatings, torture, murders etc. It can be hard to find sources I know, the history books are mostly written by the owners not the slaves. Maybe you could highlight issues like this a bit more? Keep up the good work! Desertarun (talk) 16:39, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Also the article is eligible for WP:DYK for the first week after creation. If you wanted to nominate it. Desertarun (talk) 09:56, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you I am building in this perspective which I agree is so important.

New text includes “When disposing of land, Atherton would have chosen whether to hold a slave auction or have his own attorney draw up contracts to dispose of any unwanted enslaved workers. This typically involved separating children from their mothers and splitting up couples. Compassion of a plantation owner was unlikely, particularly since the article refers to Atherton being childless.” After the existing text “During Atherton’s final years, between 1791 and 1800, 35 children were recorded as born into slavery in Spring Vale Pen. 48 slaves died and a further 70 were purchased. Green Park Estate had 4 times more slaves than this smaller estate”. I added some new important perspective “This period also coincided with the heaviest forced migrations which occurred between 1790 and 1807. The result of such slaving patterns made Jamaica the second most common destination for Igbo people arriving from the Bight of Biafra.”

I don’t believe I can self nominate the article I created as a DYN. Please kindly nominate if you feel this is ready. You mentioned a time limit.

The beatings, murders etc... I will add to the overseers I already listed in the Green Park Section Adin-Atherton (talk) 20:14, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Well done on the article. The overseers were the psychopaths in chief, the worst I've seen is Thomas Thistlewood, his article is a chilling read. The plantation owners condoned it all at best and often ordered it. Yeah, if you could find info on Athertons overseers it would give the article better context, or alternatively you could mention the generic treatment of slaves something like in Slavery in the British and French Caribbean. Desertarun (talk) 12:51, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes I agree. Very little is written about the overseers or the hierarchy. Hence generic treatment to make the key points. So terrible to have a life of imprisonment and to be at the mercy of a handful of evil people that turned it into an industry. I don’t know if you noticed that I created an article for the plantation itself. It is titled “Green Park Estate, Jamaica”. Would you be so kind enough to assess? It’s very similar, however it covers the early years, prior to William Atherton, and also the plantations contemporary history. I want to find out about the emancipation more too and that would sit better in the Green Park article since it occurred 30 years after William Atherton’s death. I have also written an article on William Atherton’s father. He was the one (and his brother John) who effectively funded a 23 year olds journey to Jamaica to make life and death decisions and keep enslaved hundreds of people, and keep replenish the numbers to maintain profits that came back to England . The article is: William Atherton (mayor of Preston)”. Someone put a comment at the top saying not notable enough, however if this is a big puzzle, the father is, in my option the key, and hopefully historians (who are trying to follow the flow of wealth) will have a picture of where it all started. Merchants got greedy. Exchanging beads for people (men, women and children). Being responsible for 18 voyages is truly shocking for which William Snr, Mayor of Preston benefited. I noticed William’ Jnrs partner is recorded to have been signature to at least 50 voyages. There are likely many more that they were not signatories too! Sorry to go on. Just passionate this story is told since it should not be lost to history. Thank you again. Adin-Atherton (talk) 14:17, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

I assessed those articles and took off the notability tag. The tag was placed when the article was quite new and is no longer appropriate. I haven't read the articles in any depth, just a general observation the mayor could do with some section headers. It would be nice to find a picture of Green Park as it is today, but alas things like that are hard to come across! Desertarun (talk) 20:07, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes good call. I will reach out now to some Jamaican historical societies for a picture. I have been enhancing an article on Eleanora Atherton, the niece of the plantation owner who claimed compensation for freeing 800 people. It was a very light article (not mine) tho at focused on her philanthropy!!!!! I hope it doesn’t get reverted as I have spent hours trying to set the scene as to what she we really was - a slave owner and absent landlord - if people are quiet I can strengthen more! - however it does need re-classifying to bolster it new perspective now I have fully researched the life as a plantations owner.

I have tried to be objective in the re-write and get into the mind of a female absentee landlord during the 1820s, who was shielded from the nastier things in life. Just how much did her family or her legal advisors tell her as to the putrid conditions on her plantations. Did she consider emancipation before it was law? Did she offer certain slaves the right to buy their freedom. Did she reign in bad behavior of an overseer? I doubt it. They were free to abuse and decide who lived and who died. The sources on her do not appear to exist. There is no diary. It seems as was typical of the era, monies made from oppression was donated to causes that she considered worthy. It is all very sad. Equally it’s important for people to see whether the fruits of labour of oppression and torture went. England and not Jamaica. Again sorry to rant on. Thank you for guiding me along the way. I will look at sections for the other article. Adin-Atherton (talk) 10:15, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

The additions you've made to Elenora Atherton are good. I've seen slavers who gave money away and were described as philanthropists before. I'm certain she knew of the treatment of her slaves and gave money away to try to make herself look better among her peers - because they knew too! Today she would just be thrown in jail, she couldn't use the defence "I didn't know" because it was her business to know. Victorian society was very much about saving face and what the neighbours think. So, she was just a vile creature, who instead of freeing her slaves or making their lives better, sought to save face, keep her lavish lifestyle and "buy" her friends to prevent them calling her a murderer.

You can't delete any of the philanthropy in the article, but it is fair to rebalance the article as you are doing. How are you wanting to reclassify the article? Desertarun (talk) 18:51, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I so agree with you on all counts. I just didn’t want to be accused of vandalism and I have no idea what class it was. I didn’t write it. If it was say a C before maybe go higher A or B, in order to show that an independent reviewer agrees with what I am trying to do by opening up peoples eyes to the money flow. I have transformed a short philanthropic bio into a slave owner which is what she was. I have to limit how far I can go. Keeping restrained and add more when I have some more facts. Re: philanthropy I did add the pound values on church funding as that’s important for people to know where her income generated by c. 5000 people that were potentially enslaved to her between 1823 and 1833. I need to work out what that was in today’s money. Thanks again and I read the overseer article. I didn’t sleep! A story that needs to be told Adin-Atherton (talk) 19:08, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I updated the rating. I won't change anything on your articles or do any co-editing because I know it is best to let people flow and get on with things. Happy editing! Desertarun (talk) 19:25, 9 April 2021 (UTC)