Talk:Wilhelmina FitzClarence, Countess of Munster

Wilhelmina FitzClarence, Countess of Munster has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: May 27, 2014. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Wilhelmina FitzClarence, Countess of Munster appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 2 March 2014 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Wilhelmina FitzClarence, Countess of Munster (pictured), a granddaughter of King William IV, published a collection of ghost stories in 1896?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2014/March. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Wilhelmina FitzClarence, Countess of Munster.

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Wilhelmina FitzClarence, Countess of Munster/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 18:13, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like a very interesting topic; happy to take a look. J Milburn (talk) 18:13, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

""Mina" was born the" As Wilhelmina isn't a common name, it's not obvious that Mina refers to the subject of the article. Was she known as Mina all her life? If so, perhaps you could change her bolded name to "Wilhelmina "Mina" FitzClarence, Countess of Munster"? If not, I'm not sure it belongs in the lead.

It's not clear how long she had been called Mina, but in her autobiography she makes first mention of being called it as a young child (3 or 4 years old). The name seems too informal to add "Mina" to the bolded name in the lead, but I've tried to make it more clear there that she was also known as Mina. Let me know if you still think it needs some reworking. Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is her mother notable? Redlinks aren't necessarily a bad thing. Same for her father.

I've added a redlink for her mother; am doubtful that her father could merit his own article though. I will add her mother to my to-do list. Ruby 2010/2013 00:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"In 1855, Mina married her first cousin William FitzClarence, 2nd Earl of Munster and had nine children." Nine children in one year?

Now fixed. Ruby 2010/2013 00:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

From the lead- ""Mina" was born the day before William's succession as monarch"; from the body- "William IV (who became monarch the day before Mina's birth)" Which was it?

The day after; now fixed. Ruby 2010/2013 00:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

brain fever is a dablink

Hmmm... I've no idea which article to redirect it to. As that dab page says, "brain fever" is an outdated term. Without knowing more about her condition, I do not know which more precise link to choose. I'm kind of in favor of leaving it as is. Thoughts? Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You can't really leave it as a dablink. Scarequotes are probably the way forward, unless we have an article on the term "brain fever". J Milburn (talk) 23:11, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've added quotes and removed the link to the dab page entirely. I'm rather surprised we don't have an article about the Victorian idea of brain fever; if I knew more about that sort of thing, I'd begin a stub on it (actually, with these types of sources, maybe I could write something...). I'll consider adding this to my to-do list. Ruby 2010/2013 20:22, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You mention Millicent without introducing her as Mina's sister. Perhaps you could say the names of Mina and the other sibling at the first mention of Mina's siblings.

Good point; I have mentioned that Millicent is her sister when she's first mentioned. Will add her brother when I find a good place. Ruby 2010/2013 00:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Mina lived there until she married." This is contradicted later- she apparently lived outside England?

I think she meant that Kensington Palace was her permanent residence; her travels were not included in this. Ruby 2010/2013 00:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"The new couple" There are two new couples- how about "The FitzClarences"?

Good idea; done. Ruby 2010/2013 00:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to jump very quickly from the marriage to the death- is there really nothing more to talk about? She just lived there and occasionally did some writing? Do we know the cause of death? Did she outlive her husband?

Not much came up during my research, but I will take another look now that I have access to Questia. Ruby 2010/2013 00:33, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've done some additional research using different search terms, and while I found (and added) more about her literary career, unfortunately little was found about other aspects of her life. Her autobiography (IMO interestingly) barely covers this period; it mainly focuses on her childhood, alas. Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What were her novels about? Have any literary historians made any comment about them? (Any analysis comparable to that offered of Ghostly Tales would be great!)

I've included some some more details about her novels, and found in the process some interesting information on her connection to Oscar Wilde. Hopefully the section looks better now! Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Did Lamb include her stories in his anthology? Presumably, if he's saying that?

Yes, he did (as well as in a later anthology). I've mentioned both now. Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

While Anderson's blog is a perfectly good source for analysis of her work, I don't think it's very good for facts of her life.

Understandable concern. I've removed/replaced his citations where they were supporting facts (rather than opinions). Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In terms of the sourcing, the obvious worry is that you're leaning very heavily on very old sources- many of them over a century old! Have there been no more modern works looking at her life?

Yes, this is a reasonable concern. There just doesn't seem to be much from modern sources, however. Lady Munster seems to be a figure largely unknown (and unstudied) today. I hope this won't prevent the article from passing. Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If it is definitely the case that no newer sources exist, I'm not averse to relying upon older sources in this way. We would have a better case if you could include and source a claim about her being understudied/forgotten today in the article (if you don't already). Not essential, but it would be helpful! J Milburn (talk) 23:11, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Lamb does mention that her works have been largely forgotten by literature experts, but that's really the only type of analysis I can find about her recognition today. Ruby 2010/2013 20:22, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Montrose, Angus? Category:19th-century British novelists? Category:British short story writers? Category:British horror writers? Category:Women short story writers?

Good suggestions; all now added. Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The sourcing on File:Countess of Munster 1904 frontispiece.jpg is a little problematic. It's certainly PD in the US as it was published prior to 1923, but do we not know who took the photograph?

All I know is that it featured as the cover of her autobiography in 1904. More recently published works would usually reveal the origin of the cover image, but back then, this was not the case. I'm not well-versed in the more advanced rules of our image policies; is the lack of an author a problem for the image's inclusion? Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The fact you don't know the author isn't a problem in-and-of itself, but you're claiming that it's PD based on the date of death of the author. {{PD-EU-no author disclosure}} in conjunction with {{PD-US-1923-abroad}} may be the best way forward, here. J Milburn (talk) 23:11, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I asked for some help here. Whatever happens, the image will stay, it's just a question of how it's tagged (and where it's uploaded). J Milburn (talk) 10:16, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've also asked for help concerning cleaning the image- it'll improve the look of the article considerably if we have a cleaner lead! J Milburn (talk) 10:26, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for going the extra mile and asking about them! Any help is always appreciated. Should I add those two PD tags now, or should I wait a bit to see what others think? Ruby 2010/2013 20:22, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

An enjoyable article. J Milburn (talk) 18:56, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oscar Wilde wrote about her Dorinda- see this book. If you can't access the appropriate pages, let me know.

Thank you for your review! I will get to work on your comments shortly. Ruby 2010/2013 20:45, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the delay in responding. This past week has been a tad busy for me, due to my full-time job and my move to a new area (only a city over, but it still entails some effort!). I hope it's ok if you extend the time on the review a bit more, so I can get to work dealing with your suggestions. I hope to be adding them within the next few days. Thanks, Ruby 2010/2013 20:38, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As long as you need- don't worry! J Milburn (talk) 22:44, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you again for reviewing! I believe I have finishing making my changes and replied to your comments above. Please let me know if there is anything else. Regards, Ruby 2010/2013 20:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've responded to some of your comments inline- I'll give the article a proper second look-through at some point soon. J Milburn (talk) 23:11, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Second read through

Ok, the image issues and the "brain fever" issue are still live, but hopefully will be resolved (I've also asked for the portrait to be cut away from the signature, which can be used separately in the infobox. Taking a second lookthrough now.

Just to clarify, we don't have a source mentioning the cause or location of death?

Her death location was supported by Anderson, but I had to remove it. I've done searches for a replacement source, but nothing is turning up. I haven't seen anything about the cause of her death. Ruby 2010/2013 20:22, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why have you linked "Republicanism" to Republicanism in the United States? Surely Republicanism is more appropriate?

I believe the link is to UK (not US)? Ruby 2010/2013 20:22, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What was A Scotch Earl about? Can we have a one-line summary as we have for Dorinda?

I added a brief line about A Scotch Earl to the article (further details have been difficult to come by). Ruby 2010/2013 20:22, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Can we have page numbers for Youngkin source?

I accessed Youngkin through Google Books, and that version does not include page numbers, unfortunately. A quick search for Munster will turn up the few pages cited though. Ruby 2010/2013 20:22, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Could you check the formatting on the The Academy and Literature source? Also The Spectator, The Saturday Review and Lady's Realm. We need article titles, if possible!

I have done some tweaks to each; hopefully they look more consistent now! Ruby 2010/2013 20:22, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Looking very good. J Milburn (talk) 12:44, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alrighty, I believe I have responded to your additional comments. Please let me know if there is anything else! Ruby 2010/2013 20:22, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I'm happy that this is ready. Probably my favourite article I've reviewed at GAC in a while- definitely a topic worthy of a GA! Two final points:

In the caption showing Mina as a child, could you add to the caption specifying which child is which? A link to John Hayter, the painter, would also be nice!
Were Mina and her husband full first cousins? Or were they only half first cousins? I appreciate they're both grandchildren of William, but do they share a grandmother?

In any case, I've no business holding up promotion on those points. Great work. J Milburn (talk) 16:40, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have addressed those two points (they were full first cousins -- times were different back then!). :) Thanks again! Ruby 2010/2013 22:03, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]