Talk:Wilhelm Ritter von Thoma

Untitled

The entry on the German Wikipedia claims that he was born in September, while this entry claims November. Can anybody verify either date? (If this entry had said November 9th then it could be explained as simple confusion between date formats.) ThreeBlindMice 19:44, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

date of birth?

You're right. There are a few different dates of von Thoma's birth... I'm still researching as I saw that on these sites (http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/) and (http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.de/Infanterie/Thoma-Wilhelm-Ritter-von.htm) it says September 1, 1891. Still not 100% sure.

clean up

This article is very badly laid out. It should not be presented as a list of dates and places. I'm sure teh information is fine, but its difficult to get at it.

Jdorney 00:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Discrepancy

The article concludes with the statment that Von Thoma "died of a heart attack in 1948 in Söcking, Germany." However, the information box records his place of death as Dachau. ??? Sca (talk) 18:59, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Brauchitsch?

He was recorded discussing rockets that were being tested at Kummersdorf West while in the company of Generalfeldmarschall Walther von Brauchitsch, the Commander-in-Chief of the Army, and other technical program details.

Von Brauchitsch wasn't captured. So how could Von Thoma have been overheard speaking to him? Valetude (talk) 12:21, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Thoma had a conversation another POW, general Ludwig Crüwell (IIRC). He discussed visiting the site as part of a bigger delegation. But I see that the phrasing can be confusing. I will adjust. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:52, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Missing sections

The following large sections were deleted, apparently because they lacked citations. I suggest they should be re-inserted, since the current article starts halfway through his career, and the lede contains many items not represented in the main article:

First World War

Wilhelm Ritter von Thoma was born in Dachau in 1891. He joined the Royal Bavarian Army on 23 September 1912 and attended the War School in Munich from in 1913 – 1914. Thoma took part in the First World War on the Russian front and the Serbian front. In early 1916, now a Lieutenant, Thoma was transferred to France and fought in the Battle of Verdun. In June, Thoma was transferred to the Eastern Front where he was decorated with the Knight's Cross of the Bavarian Military Max Joseph Order, the highest military decoration for bravery in the Bavarian Army. The award also earned him non-hereditary knighthood and the privilege to be named Ritter von Thoma. Between 1917 and 1918 he served on the Western Front. Thoma was taken prisoner in July 1918 and was released in October 1919.

Interwar period

Thoma remained in the military serving with the new Übergangsheer (Transitional Army) set up under the restrictions of the Treaty of Versailles. Over the following ten years, he participated in training courses on mechanized warfare and served in staff roles in several motorized battalions. On 1 August 1934, Thoma was transferred to the Motorized Demonstration Command Ohrdruf, equipped with Germany's first new tank, the Panzer I. On 15 October 1935, he was appointed a battalion commander in the 2nd Panzer Division.

During the Spanish Civil War, Nazi Germany intervened on the side of the Nationalists led by Francisco Franco. From September 1936 to June 1939, Thoma was sent by the Army High Command to Spain as commander of ground contingent of the German Condor Legion, equipped with Panzer I light tanks. While ostensibly in Spain in a training capacity, the German Army instructors, including Thoma, rotated to the front to provide further technical advice to the Spanish forces and to engage in direct combat operations. After the Spanish Civil War ended, Thoma was appointed to the staff of Panzer Regiment 3 of the 2nd Panzer Division and was then assigned the leadership of the regiment.

Second World War

The Second World War began with the invasion of Poland in September 1939. The 2nd Panzer Division commanded took part in the invasion as a component of XXII Army Corps. Thoma received the 1939 Bars to both of his First World War Iron Crosses for his performance during the campaign. From 19 September 1939 to 5 March 1940, he acted as commander of a panzer regiment in the 2nd Panzer Division. On 17 July 1941 he was assigned the leadership of the 17th Panzer Division in the rank of Generalmajor (Brigadier).

Commanded by Generalmajor and Doctor of Engineering Karl Ritter von Weber (acting commander in place of Generalleutnant Hans-Jürgen von Arnim who had been wounded on 26 June 1941, near Stolpce), the 17th Panzer Division was engaged in the invasion of the Soviet Union as a component of Army Group Centre. On 17 July 1941 Thoma assumed temporary command of the division, which he led until 15 September, when Arnim resumed command. On 14 October 1941 Thoma was appointed commander of the 20th Panzer Division on the Eastern Front, which took part in the Battle of Moscow. In December, Thoma had received the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross for his actions during the retreat.

Promoted to Generalleutnant in August 1942, in September Thoma was transferred to North Africa to serve with the Afrika Korps. On 23 October 1942, the Battle of El Alamein commenced when the British Eighth Army began its offensive against the German-Italian Panzer Army in Egypt. Thoma briefly took command of the combined Axis army until 25 October. Thoma was promoted to General der Panzertruppe on 1 November.

Sure, if you have WP:RS that covers this period, then yes, please go ahead. Otherwise, it would be an unsourced addition. The sources that I've seem on Thoma discuss his time as a POW and his inadvertent role in the demise of the V-weapons program. His military career and performance as a commanding officer do not appear to be that notable. However, I will create a quick summary that introduces the basic facts of his service. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

1936?

POW Thoma's voice to POW Ludwig Crüwell c. fall 1936

He may have been investigating missiles as early as 1936. But he wasn't captured till 1942. Valetude (talk) 00:00, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Dinner with Montgomery

More could be said about his dinner with Montgomery, after his capture. Alan Morehead says he and Montgomery fought the battle again, using maps, over the dinner table, with Montgomery asking von Thoma about what the Germans would have done if he had done this or that during the action. Montgomery learned a lot about German military thinking this way. 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:E1FA:733C:E5:F667 (talk) 08:34, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Beer Hall Putsch

He is listed in the category Opposers who participated in the Beer Hall Putsch, yet there is no mention of the putsch in the body of his entry. --The Vital One (talk) 21:34, 27 December 2021 (UTC)