Talk:Wierzchowiny, Krasnystaw County

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Picture

Page 471 of book: [1] has a picture of the aftermath of the 1945 massacre. It is probably public domain being as it is from 1945. Can this be uploaded and added? JoeZ451 (talk) 14:56, 10 January 2020 (UTC) sock puppet Icewhiz[reply]

Split

This discussion has been disrupted by block evasion, ban evasion, or sockpuppetry from the following user:

JoeZ451 (talk · contribs · block log)

Comments from this user should be excluded from assessments of consensus.

I suggest that the content about massacre is split into its own dedicated article. This article should only contain a short summary of this incident (after the split). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:50, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~I agree this article should be summary. I am unsure sufficient neutral reliable sources exist for a full article. JoeZ451 (talk) 19:00, 11 January 2020 (UTC)~~ sock puppet Icewhiz[reply]

Polish Wikipedia has a dedicated article about this massacre: pl:Zbrodnia w Wierzchowinach. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 19:50, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this massacre deserves its own article. Short summary of the event should stay in the article about the village.--Darwinek (talk) 19:54, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Conspiracy vs. scholarly sources

I undid,[2] because several English language scholarly sources describe the 1945 massacre as murder of nearly 200 Ukrainian civilians, for example: [3][4]. The article presented a conspiracy, something scholarly sources do not. JoeZ451 (talk) 19:04, 11 January 2020 (UTC) sock puppet Icewhiz[reply]

If reliable sources disagree on some facts, the solution is not to remove them (unless there are issues of WP:UNDUE/WP:FRINGE) but to attribute them. The Polish article in question can be accessed here (open access): [5]. I note that newer of the two sources you cite, article by Grabski, covers this incident only in passing, does not mention the number of deaths, and specifically references and directs the reader to the Polish article by Zajączkowski. The article by Snyder [6] is from the same year as the Polish article. It does not discuss this issue in depth and cites the number of 197 dead (not 200) to PRIMARY source " “Telefonogram I sekretarza,” 10 June 1945, AAN, VI Oddzia∏, KC PPR, 295/VII–181, k. 148, reproduced in Misi∏o, Repatriacja, pp. 132–133." Snyder is of course a reliable scholar, but in this case it is clear that the more reliable and useful source is the Polish in-depth study of the incident, which, I repeat, is also considered reliable and useful by the second English source which YOU found. As such I think the longer account is fine (through per discussion in the section above it should be split to avoid cluttering this article with what is, in the end, historical trivia that should not be discussed here). PS. I restored the longer section with some notes, I'll note that the article by Mariusz Zajączkowski does not seem to whitewash the massacre or such, in fact it seems to me he concludes it happened, through there seems to be a considerable discrepancy with regards to the number of casualties (12-396; I think Mariusz Zajączkowski leans towards an estimate of ~190+ which seems to be the currently accepted mainstream number, pl wiki states 196 and this is likely right, so you estimate of 'nearly 200' is correct. I strongly suggest splitting this into a new article and continuing the discussion there.). PPS. The massacre is not a conspiracy theory, and if the text implies it is feel free to edit it to remove such an impression. I will try to split the article into a stand-alone over the next few days. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 19:36, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]