This is an archive of past discussions about Wicked Annabella. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We got only one file for this article - an audio sample. It's short and low-quality enough - 66 kbps and ~10% of the original song's duration - and has a clear encyclopedic purpose. The NFC rationale is filled out properly - that is great! The file is technically not an image, but I'll tick the "image" criteria anyway because there are no other files in the article
Since 23 July 2022 all edits have been from the nominator, so no issues with edit warring arise. Insert low-hanging-fruit joke about edit warring with yourself etc etc 🗿
The article covers the broad aspects of the song, with sections that I expect a song article to have. It provides background context, discusses the composition, and narrates release (and reception if possible)
Focused, for the most part. It does not go on any off-topic tangents. Though I echo the same concerns with this article as I did with the "Walter" article - much of the content in the "Recording" section would better fit the "Background and composition" section. Some of the sentences there focus more on the music itself than the actual recording process.
Furthermore, the overuse of "author" without specifying credentials
I moved some bits from the Recording section which cover the song's opening and riff up under Background and composition. Also, I specified credentials where able.
As expected, there is a references section, and the prose supplies a sufficient amount of inline citations. From the getgo, none of these sources tip me off with regards to unreliability. Notes section looks fine.
"an attempt at get a song 'to sound as horrible as it could', resulting in an overall 'rude sound'." Two things: change to "attempt to get", and I think those two quotations convey the same meaning. One can be safely removed.
Done.
"The song is another of the character studies" -> "...is one of many character studies"
Done.
"characterises the lyrics of 'Wicked Annabella' as..." -> "the lyrics of" is not necessary, especially considering that you use "lyrics" again in the next sentence
Removed.
"since the Doors had plagiarised the Kinks' 1964 single 'All Day and All of the Night' for their 1968 single 'Hello, I Love You'." Hm, now this is thought-provoking. Generally when I hear the argument that a song "plagiarized" from another song, such as when folks say "Olivia Rodrigo stole Paramore's 'Misery Business'!!!!!", my first instinct is to roll my eyes and be cautious about what is being said. Because, whether people like it or not, musicians take inspiration from or even derive directly from other musicians all the time to create their work. And songs from the same genre sound very similar to one another - why else would they be under the same genre umbrella in the first place - and within that genre there are only so many possible chord progressions and melodies that there will inevitably be overlap between works. That does not immediately mean people are ripping off others! With that said, I'd like to get more insight behind this argument because I think this is bold and big enough of a claim to warrant at least more than one citation, or an expanded version of the core argument. Sorry for that long ramble - just really passionate about the topic at hand
The source (Johnny Rogan) says the Doors used "All Day and All of the Night" as a "template" for their own song. Rogan also uses the term "playful plagiarism". There's nothing public, but it seems that the Kinks' publisher and the Doors reached a settlement in UK court (there's a bit on that in the article for "All Day and All of the Night"). I can just change it to something a little less inflammatory. How about this? ...since the Doors had based their 1968 single "Hello, I Love You" in-part on the Kinks' 1964 single "All Day and All of the Night".
Tangent: That's funny you mention her; when I included an Olivia Rodrigo song on a mix for my wife, she was trying to figure out how the hell I of all people had heard of it. When I was reading more about Elvis Costello, I stumbled on some articles about her borrowing "Pump It Up"'s classic descending riff for "Brutal", which led me to her. I thought it was funny because I also recently saw in the article for This Year's Model(a great FAC that needs comments, by the way!) that Costello based his song on Dylan's "Subterranean Homesick Blues"... which I already knew Dylan based in-part on Chuck Berry "Too Much Monkey Business". Now there's not one bad song among those. I think it's interesting that if you just read the lyrics of all four songs, the two with the most in-common are those furthest apart in time: "Too Much Monkey Business" (1956) and "Brutal" (2021). I doubt Rodrigo is a big Chuck Berry fan though.
Hah, I love a good ol' coincidence 😄
"Critic Jim..." should probably specify music critic
Done.
"while... instead" only one of these words is necessary
Removed "instead".
The sentence beginning with "Journalist Nick Haste..." is waaay too long and hard to follow; it could benefit from a split.
My suggestion would be something like... Journalist Nick Hasted and English professor Barry J. Faulk think the song's "crashing" guitars make "Wicked Annabella" a conventional rock song, one of the few of its kind on the album. Faulk argues that Dave Davies' lead vocals and the rock-infused "tight harmonies and aggressive back-beat" were ways of further separating the song from the other tracks.
I tried separating it into three different sentences instead, that way there's no confusion about which author is being quoted with the "crashing" guitars bit.
Is Mike Sargetto a pop culture author?
From what I can see, that's probably the best description of him.
"are increasingly separate" vague. I do not know what "increasingly" here is supposed to mean. And I don't think a song can "separate" from a music scene, rather that it does not follow the current scene's trends
Changed to ...while most of the songs on Village Green avoid the sounds of the contemporary music scene...
"the music of 1967 and 1968" can be simplified to "1967 and 1968 songs"
Done.
"the 'whimsy' of Davies compositions" meaning is quite unclear here as well.
How about this? ...the whimsical nature of "Wicked Annabella" and other Davies compositions...
The construction of "the tradition of English fairy tales and the works of English author Kenneth Grahame" suggests that his works are separate from English fairy tales, i.e. not fairy tales themselves. Was this intentional?
Yes – this is what the source writes: The Kinks certainly delivered whimsy on their next LP, Village Green Preservation Society, but tracks such as "Wicked Annabella"... owed more to English fairy tales and Kenneth Graham than to lysergic-acid-fuelled dreams.
Recording
"Employing guitar feedback, while its conclusion of interplay between drums and guitar features Dave Davies's laughter" -> hard to follow. What about the song employs guitar feedback. What does "its" in "in conclusion" refer to?
Sorry, this sentence is a bit of a mess. I think I was moving sentences around and didn't notice this. I've rewritten it and the previous sentence.
"the use of an early solid-state amplifier" I am not sure what "early" is supposed to mean. "Older", I presume (?)
"Early" refers to the fact that solid-statetransistor technology was brand new for music in the late 1960s. It's one of the reasons why kids today love Abbey Road so much, since its production sounds so much more modern than the other Beatles LPs, which were all otherwise done with the old vacuum tube mixing desks. Someone even wrote a book about it. I've rewritten it as "early-era".
"The song's July 1968 recording" we already know when the song was recorded, so there is no need to restate the date
Removed.
It took me a while to parse the opener for the second paragraph. Something more straightforward like "During the song's recording, Ray Davies gave his bandmates more creative input for the album" perhaps?
If this change would be implemented, I'd clarify "Mick Avory altered his drum sound" in "Annabella" specifically
How's this? During the song's recording, Ray Davies allowed for greater creative input from his bandmates than was typical for him; Mick Avory altered his drum sound on the song by disengaging the snare...
Release
I have another similar concern in this section as I did in the "Walter" article. The first sentence seems like a lot of words to simply say "Ray Davies included 'Wicked Annabella' on the second sides (B-sides?) of the twelve- and fifteen-track editions of The Kinks..."
Reworded as suggested. On an LP there isn't the same A- and B-side distinction as there is with singles, so "second side" makes more sense.
"while the UK release of the album with fifteen tracks followed on 22 November" can be simplified to "while the fifteen-track, UK version followed on 22 November"
How about ...while the fifteen-track UK-version followed on 22 November. so as to avoid the comma.
More of a nitpick, but you use "critic" and "writes" two times in a row during this section
Removed repetition.
"tours" here is in plural, so shouldn't "set list" be in plural too?
Done.
Some quotes here are paraphrasable, e.g. Morgan Enos of Billboard magazine calls the song "fabulously creepy" to ... appreciated the eerie tone of "Wicked Annabella" and compared it .... I don't really get what the Christgau quotation is supposed to mean, so we can translate this into lay man's terms or replace them with more concrete critiques
Rewrote: Robert Christgau counted "Wicked Annabella" as one of the album's missteps due to an "impersonal artiness", preferring the album's songs which instead seem to originate in Ray Davies's actual life experiences.
That's all from me for Round 2! To be honest, the great commentary on the "Walter" lyrics from the other article left me expecting this one to be as comprehensive, but alas :( Maybe the song is just that straightforward, maybe the sources don't talk about it as much. Either way, I continue to be a fan of your writing style ^^ Once this round is done, I'll move on to the spotchecks and final prose comments. Enjoy your week ahead! Your Power 🐍 💬 "What did I tell you?" 📝 "Don't get complacent..."11:47, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
@Tkbrett: I think you have an idea for my reviewing style already. We're in the final stretch, and there are few remaining issues left before I wrap up this GAN.
For this spotcheck, I have selected 6 sources: "Kinks Kountry", The Story of Music Hall in Rock, Not Like Everybody Else, "Family, home and cultural identity in the music of Ray Davies and the Kinks", The Village Green at 50: Every Song From Worst to Best", and Erlewine's review. Apart from the spotcheck, expect some suggestions to tidy up the prose as well for round 3
"Kinks Kountry"
relevant quote here seems to be "This means the English do have to worry about the kind of impersonal artsiness that flaws both the Zombies' album and last year's Kinks, Something Else. But except for 'Wicked Annabella' and 'Phenomenal Cat,' both of which might have been turned out by some Drury Lane whimsy specialist, this is not a problem with Village Green, which seems to have been written in response to real people ..." The quote checks out; "impersonal artiness" is in the source material and is framed as a flaw, and he discounts "Annabella" for not being personal compared to the other songs
The Story of Music Hall in Rock
I am looking at these quotations: "Songs like 'Wicked Annabella' [... are] full of crashing guitar chords, tight harmonies, and an aggressive back-beat. (Not surprisingly, this is the only song on the album featuring Dave Davies on lead vocal - perhaps a way of further isolating this ... song from the rest of the album?)." and "Ray Davies' intent on recreating a more organic mode of ... recording rock music". I assume that the "conventional rock music" part is supported by the "organic mode of ... recording rock music" bit. Fine for the most part, but he poses the idea of "the sole Dave Davies lead vocals as a way to further isolate the song" as more of a question and not so much a definitive fact. Can the article prose be rewritten to reflect that?
Tweak to reflect that.
"Family, home and cultural identity in the music of Ray Davies and the Kinks"
"The increasing tweeness could be attributed to marketers' desire to latch on to the drug-fuelled dream imagery proliferating in the charts in 1967 and 1968 ... but tracks such as 'Wicked Annabella' ... owed more to English fairy tales and Kenneth Graham than to lysergic-acid-fuelled dreams." Yep, checks out. Though the wording of "increasingly heard" skews the intended meaning a bit, I must say. I'd change it to "becoming more present"
Done.
Not Like Everybody Else
Citation 1: "burning her eyes into others' souls" is untrue, or at least does not match what the source says quite well; this phrasing makes her eyes sound like mini-CDs :"). The source says "burning souls with her eyes". And I feel like there is a comma missing after "souls" there, unless you don't use Oxford commas
Fixed phrasing to match source. I avoid the serial comma in articles written in British English since the idea is generally an American thing.
Citation 2: Straightforward enough and the source says exactly what the article says.
"The Village Green at 50: Every Song From Worst to Best"
The comparison is there, and the author does seem to like how creepy the song was. Verified.
Erlewine's review
I can verify that Erlewine found Dave's lead vocals surprising compared to the rest of the album which was more calm! Although the article would benefit from briefly explaining what about the song made it "surprising"
Added Erlewine's description of the song's "menace".
That's all for the spot checks. As I see it there are no glaring red flags that might prompt me to scrutinize the untouched sources for further issues. The prose simply needs a few tweaks to properly match what the sources say. Now that I have read the article in its entirety, here is what I have to say about the lead section:
I'd expect more about the lyrics and eerie tone - probably a sentence or two about it
Added.
Every sentence in here uses the word "song" - switch the wording up, I say!
Done.
I'd move the "The song is one of several character studies on Village Green" part after the "only lead vocals contribution" one, leaving the bit about the lyrics where it currently is. Then I'd split the sentences after "character studies" into its own paragraph. The additional stuff about the lyrics and mood can also go there.
Done.
I think saying "psychedelic music" instead of simply "psychedelia" is less vague
"Psychedelic music", like "psychedelic rock" is mostly a later Americanism, while the term in late 1960s Britain was "psychedelia". That's why you see "psychedelia" used throughout an FA like Sgt. Pepper.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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pass from me Your Power 🐍 💬 "What did I tell you?"