Talk:Who Would Have Thought It?

Who Would Have Thought It? was a Language and literature good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 16, 2008	Good article nominee	Not listed

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Image:Citizen Know Nothing.jpg

I've added this image of Citizen Know Nothing to the "Background" section as it seemed relevant to the political history. Let me know (irony alert!) if I am incorrect about this. Awadewit (talk) 05:25, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if this is a bridge too far. The Know Nothings were most predominant in the north and east, were a party of the 1850s, and their anti-Catholicism and nativism was largely motivated by Irish immigration. At this time, Ruiz de Burton was living in San Diego.

Other possibilities include something from the American Civil War, e.g., there's this from the New York Draft Riots. For a bit of religion there is also this, although (surprisingly) the chaplain is Catholic! For anti-Irish discrimination in the 1860s, there is this.

On the other hand, it would be nice to have some color, after the bland lead image! One could have something from the Mexican-American War like this or the Mexican Cession: this.

Note (for Nicole and Anna) that where possible I am linking to the images on Wikimedia Commons. At the bottom of the image page, you can find categories. Clicking on these gives galleries of images. This is a good way to search for the perfect image. Geometry guy 16:21, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I replaced it with one of the Mexican-American War images. Awadewit (talk) 03:18, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some other images. Let me know what you think of them. Awadewit (talk) 08:25, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aleman

I have read the Aleman article and I noticed a few problems with the way it is being used. I'm going to list them here:

Lola is an example of a mestizo position: her character reflects the paradox of Ruiz de Burton's novel, "the belief of many Californio elites that they could profit from Anglo economic and cultural expansion into California in much the same way Californios profited from Spanish and Mexican colonization of Indian lands."^[1] - This is not a claim that can be supported from the article. Aleman does not make this claim in relation in Lola. Awadewit (talk) 23:12, 10 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As a Northern Democrat who has shown sympathies towards the South, Dr. Norval finds that he needs to leave the country. He supports the Union but at the same time sees a hypocrisy that its democratic claim does not conceal.^[2] - Aleman's article does not stretch to page 106. I checked page 16 and did not find this information. Awadewit (talk) 00:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Doña Theresa's use of Indian labour and resources pertain to the indigenous exploitation during the Spanish colonization. - Aleman's specific argument is that Dona Theresa "enact[s] in miniature the history of Spanish colonization of the Americas". Awadewit (talk) 00:30, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The paradigm of gracias al sacar suggests that Mexicans and Californios can purchase their "whiteness" from the Spanish crown. In Lola's case, the use of Indian labor allows Lola to symbolically purchase her whiteness from Mr. Sinclair, Dr. Norval's Northern banker. Literary scholar Aleman suggests that Californio colonial mentality is similar to Anglo-American colonialism when it comes to fashioning whiteness by racializing and oppressing Others - Note that Aleman states "indigenous labor eventually allow Lola to 'purchase' her white not from the Spanish crown, as was usually the case with gracias al sacar process, but from Dr. Norval's Norther bankers, suggesting that Californio colonial mentality in the novel is actually quite akin to Anglo American colonialism when it comes to fashioning whiteness by racializing and oppressing Others". - The connections between these claims are lost in the Wikipedia article, however. For example, the reason for mentioning gracias al sacar is obscured in the Wikipedia article. Awadewit (talk) 00:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"The narrative must still negotiate the anti-Catholicism of the Protest Northeast, where the influx of Irish immigrants created a host of alternative Anglo American anxieties regarding 'savagery.'" - It seems to me that this quote is taken out of context a bit. Note that it is in a paragraph about racial identity and how Lola is racially distinguished from the Irishwomen. However, the Wikipedia article does not use the quote that way. Awadewit (talk) 00:38, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
After its publication in 1872, Who Would Have Thought It? remained relatively unnoticed for over one hundred years in American literary studies, demonstrating the lack of influence that Mexican-Americans had in the making of American history - This is a misrepresentation of what Aleman says - she claims that the fact that Ruiz de Barton's two novels were ignored in American literary studies for over 100 years "speaks...more generally to the marginalization of Mexican Amercians in the construction of American history". This is quite different than the making of American history. Awadewit (talk) 00:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One of my greatest concerns is that Aleman's main points are not reflected in the Wikipedia article, specifically her nuanced arguments about the construction of whiteness and, most importantly, Hispano identity. I would suggest that the editors take a lot of time to reread this article - there is a lot more material that could be used. Awadewit (talk) 00:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Alemán 2007, p. 5
^ Alemán 2007, p. 106

More sources

Aleman's article has an excellent bibliography. I don't know which of the books contain information on Who Would Have Thought It?, but you should check them out. Note that she cites these two articles, which are both explicitly about this novel and look quite helpful:

Fisher, Beth. "The Captive Mexicana and the Desiring Bourgeois Woman: Domesticity and Expansionism in Ruiz de Burton's Who Would Have Thought It?" Legacy 16.1 (1999): 59-69.
Goldman, Anne E. "Who Ever Heard of a Blue-Eyed Mexican?: Satire and Sentimentality in Maria Amparo Ruiz de Burton's Who Would Have Thought It?" Recovering the U.S. Hispanic Literary Heritage. Vol. 2. Ed. Erlinda Gonzales-Berry and Chuck Tatum. Houston: Arte Publico, 1996. 59-79.

Both of these would help with "Genre" and "Style" sections. Awadewit (talk) 00:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Alemán 2007, p. 5

[2] Alemán 2007, p. 106

[1]

[2]