Talk:White pride/Archive 5

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"it is highly unlikely that your request to change it will be granted"

This article is anti-white propaganda. No other ethnicites are attacked like this. Whenever contrary reliable sources are brought up they are declared undue weight because it doesn't fit the overall narrative. The accepted "reliable sources" are liberal sources. I want Wikipedia to be good but when I come here I am at a loss at how it can be so blatantly-in-your face racist against white people.

How about we start with including this source? RandomUser3510 (talk) 12:59, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

This article does not say anything that anyone could possibly construe as negative about whites. It discusses the phrase "white pride" and its use by white supremacists/white nationalists/white separatists/"race realists"/"racialists" and other racist whites. That this is the primary use of the phrase is well attested in the sources cited. This article is bout that use.

The repeated claims that the phrase is used in non-racist settings to describe some sense of neutral belonging is poorly sourced and -- to the extent it exists -- would be a different topic. - SummerPhD^v2.0 16:45, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

"It is poorly sourced" here is at least one source. White pride is defined in it:

“white pride” is effectively a rebellion against neoliberal market forces that erode tribal loyalties, national boundaries, and cultural uniqueness by encouraging open borders, multiculturalism, and individualistic forms of agency associated with competition and consumerism.

It is more towards the term being as a reaction to neoliberalism and political correctness. The current version of Wikipedia article does go into this a little but not much at the end of the "Use as an identity marker" section. I think adding this source would help the article.RandomUser3510 (talk) 18:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

That is an interesting take on the white pride movement, but is by no means the consensus understanding of the term. We should use that source, but not for the primary definition used in the article. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:33, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, um, "interesting". The first cite I ran across was Jared Taylor, a prominent white supremacist, for the claim that "different races are genetically predisposed to different abilities".

It's important that we understand who the author thinks the "alt-right" is. The author tells us the "well-known voices" of the alt-right: Taylor, white nationalist Greg Johnson, "anti-semitic conspiracy theorist, white supremacist" Kevin MacDonald, Vox Day "described as a white supremacist", Mike Enoch a "neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist", "white supremacist, and antisemitic conspiracy theorist" Colin Robertson and "neo-Nazi and white supremacist organization" Identity Evropa. (For BLP issues, the quotes are from our articles on the subjects.)

So, yeah, the author is telling us what the white nationalist, white supremacists, neo-Nazis and antisemites say the phrase means.

Oh, wait, the author addresses that: "contrary to the negative images often ascribed to neo-confederates, neo-Nazis, or Ku Klux Klan members as inbred bumpkins, toothless rednecks, or psychotic skinheads, the alt-right is primarily comprised of college-educated, white men who genuinely believe in the need for racial tribalism and white advocacy in a globalizing world governed by consumerism, multiculturalism, and anti-white hostility." Well, that's reassuring... who's his source for that? Gregory Hood. Who? Oh my. - SummerPhD^v2.0 20:20, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

• @RandomUser3510: The idea of white pride is literally "golly, ain't it wonderful to not be one of them minorities?" It is inherently a white supremacist idea. If you do not see yourself as a racist, you need to rethink your life and confront some assumptions you were programmed with. It's going to be uncomfortable but you'll be a better person for doing so. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:35, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

@SummerPhD: So anyone SPLC disagrees with is not a reliable source? You just proved my point: only liberal sources are considered reliable sources. So much for NPOV. My suggestion for an edit would be expand the "Use as an identity marker" section using some of that source's material. It is in a recently published academic journal it seems reliable to me.

@Ian.thomson: You are accusing me of being racist that is a personal attack.

Comment on content, not on the contributor

Also I disagree with that definition but that is beside the point that devolves into notaforum territory so I won't go any further..RandomUser3510 (talk) 00:19, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

If you admit to believing racist things, then you are... fill in the blank. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:36, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't agree with white supremacist views I just want to improve the article. I made an edit including that academic journal entry. It seems better to me now RandomUser3510 (talk) 00:59, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@RandomUser3510: It really doesn't matter what you want us to pretend you believe believe if your actions are to present white supremacist talking points as mainstream views. Ian.thomson (talk) 11:37, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I did not say that "anyone SPLC disagrees with is not a reliable source". That is your invention. I said that the source you are citing is discussing how white supremacists, neo-Nazis and antisemites talk about the term. Why on Earth would I say something like that? Because the author is quoting an extensive list of white supremacists, neo-Nazis and antisemites. You seem to be disengenuously pretending that is not the case. - SummerPhD^v2.0 01:08, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Maybe I misunderstood you then. RandomUser3510 (talk) 01:13, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Maybe. Let me clarify: I say "Gregory Hood" is a white supremacist not because SPLC says he is, but because he exists solely as a pen name in American Renaissance, a white supremacist publication from a white supremacist publisher at a white supremacist organization funded by white supremacists. Wikipedia says similar things about all of the other white supremacists, neo-Nazis and antisemites because that's what reliable sources say about them. If we had an article in "Gregory Hood", we'd of course be having repeated discussions about whether they are a white supremacist, white nationalist, white separatist, "racial realist" or some other label racists dream up for them that seems a bit more palatable. Bottom line: The article you are citing is discussing what white supremacists, neo-Nazis and antisemites want to pretend "white pride" means. - SummerPhD^v2.0 02:00, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

OK I went ahead and made an edit to the article including the source as a sentence at the bottom of the "Use as an identity marker" section.

"White pride" has also been described as being a reaction to neoliberalism and political correctness

RandomUser3510 (talk) 02:34, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

How is that a reasonable summary of an article that is discussing what white supremacists, neo-Nazis and antisemites want to pretend "white pride" means...? Ian.thomson (talk) 11:37, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I may have made the edit too terse to fully explain the article. RandomUser3510 (talk) 12:05, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

And doing so mainstreamed white supremacist talking points, something the alt-right wants to achieve and which they have no problem pretending to make mistakes to try to accomplish. Ian.thomson (talk) 12:58, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Please stop with the accusations and attacks. If you wanted me to expand my edit more then I can try and do that (just say that) but please don't play this game of making accusations against me. I'm trying to be nice here. Do you want accusations against you? RandomUser3510 (talk) 14:39, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Here is a PDF of the academic journal entry RandomUser3510 (talk) 14:43, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I expanded the reference used in the article to include the PDF link. In its current state I would say the article has been improved. For me at least my original complaint is fixed.  Done for me RandomUser3510 (talk) 15:18, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@RandomUser3510: Pointing out clear patterns in a user's behavior is not a personal attack. Literally all but three of your edits in this and the past two years has been to push white supremacist talking points. Thanks to the PDF you've provided, I've fixed the citation even further from the intellectually dishonest one you gave to a quote that more clearly shows that the alt-right is using neoliberalism as an excuse after the fact to justify their use of a white supremacist slogan. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:51, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

People like you are why I don't engage with Wikipedia that much. You have done nothing but insult me the entire time I've been here RandomUser3510 (talk) 22:21, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

And there we have it people, Ian.thomson is trying to get me banned and deleted from here because I defied him and made some edits a few years ago. I admit I could have been less incendiary when I first edited a few days ago, but this type of reaction is over the top and abusive. RandomUser3510 (talk) 22:28, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

There you go again lying about literally all but three of your actions on this site for this and the past two years. It's not "a few years ago," it's continued behavior. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:44, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Am I the only person that has actually read the abstract of the Esposito article properly? Claiming he says “white pride” is effectively a rebellion against neoliberal market forces that erode tribal loyalties, national boundaries, and cultural uniqueness by encouraging open borders, multiculturalism, and individualistic forms of agency associated with competition and consumerism is a substantial misrepresentation of the abstract. The sentence in full reads First, calls among many alt-righters for white Americans to regain a sense of racial identity and “white pride” is effectively a rebellion against neoliberal market forces that erode tribal loyalties, national boundaries, and cultural uniqueness by encouraging open borders, multiculturalism, and individualistic forms of agency associated with competition and consumerism. He's making a single point, hence the use of "First" (and the next sentence begins with "Second"). So his sentence can't be split, his point is about alt-righters regaining a sense of racial identity and “white pride”, he's not defining white pride at all. FDW777 (talk) 22:27, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Ooops, I saw @Ian.thomson: had drastically changed the problematic version, somehow without me seeing it. Self-reverted. FDW777 (talk) 22:45, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

The article needs proper capitalization, as in Black Power

The article even begins with this:

>Sociologists Betty A. Dobratz and Stephanie L. Shanks-Meile identified "White Power! White Pride!" as "a much-used chant of white separatist movement supporters",

Clearly, it's capitalized words. No need for italics too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.173.114.12 (talk) 15:50, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

You are blending together several different reasons for capitalization. The phrase "white pride" is simply an expression, with no reason for capitalization of either word (unless it is at the beginning of a sentence. I have no idea why the sociologists in question used the capitalization they did; other sources do not. Ditto "white power". Both are phrases used by white supremacists (a.k.a. white separatists, white nationalists, racial realists, racialists, etc.) and not movements in their own right.

"Black Power" is the name of an ideology. As such, it is a proper noun. Proper nouns are -- with rare exceptions -- always capitalized in English.

The word "Black", when used to refer to people of African descent, is capitalized as a shared cultural identity, similar to an ethnicity or a demonym, though not referring to a specific country. The New York Times, CJR, Associated Press and others reflect this in their current style guides.

Capitalization of the word "White" in reference to the "race" is not yet common and it is rarely seen as an ethnicity. - SummerPhD^v2.0 02:57, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

This is both a slogan (a "much used chant", as this article itself begins as proclaiming with that quote opening it) and an at least one movement (namely the White Power Skinheads, which Wikipedia itself counts it as a movement by counting it in the section "Parties and movements" in the box at the bottom while it's not party). And also that's only just Black Power but also Red Power, and I don't think the Amerindians are more than very rarely referred to as the capital R "Red race" and yet Wikipedia doesn't fail to capitalise both "Red" and "Power" in this case. Now as for the other political chant type slogans on Wikipedia (once again, the article begins with a quote claiming it is "a much-used chant"), these include for example ACAB of the anarchists where it's all capitalised no matter anything, and yet it's always all capitalised even when it's about the full slogan ("All Cops Are Bastards") and not just the acronym. That one was just one from top of my head. But same with for another example Death to America, just checked and it's always the capitalised Death and not just death. It's a clearly established standard. And no italics in neither, too. Actually the same with Make America Great Again for that matter, on the the very same subject of what to do with the USA. So that's all kinds of chants from very different ideologies, but always being capitalised (and never italicised) except only this one.

This was really all I had to say and it's all pretty obvious, please don't bother me again to come back here to argue with you back and forth, just consider what I said. Rewrite the article however you want, but it has to be rewritten to at very least be internally consistent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.173.114.12 (talk) 06:47, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

I won't "bother" you with an argument. I considered what you said. I disagree and do not intend to rewrite the article. - SummerPhD^v2.0 22:17, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2020

The start of the article incorrectly states that "White pride, or white power, is an expression primarily used by white separatist, white nationalist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations in order to signal racist or racialist viewpoints. It is also a slogan used by the prominent post-Ku Klux Klan group Stormfront and a term used to make racist/racialist viewpoints more palatable to the general public who may associate historical abuses with the terms white nationalist, neo-Nazi, and white supremacist."

This should be changed to "White pride is an expression primarily used by white people to refer to the pride they have in their heritage. The idea of white pride is often mistaken to have racist undertones due to groups such as the post-Ku Klux Klan group Stormfront. However, their views are not representative of the majority of law abiding white people who profess to have white pride." 95.151.234.111 (talk) 08:55, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done The idea of white pride is literally "golly, ain't it wonderful to not be one of them minorities?" It is inherently a white supremacist idea. If you do not see yourself as a racist, you need to rethink your life and confront some assumptions you were programmed with. It's going to be uncomfortable but you'll be a better person for doing so. Ian.thomson (talk) 09:59, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

" If you do not see yourself as a racist, you need to rethink your life " - No personal attacks. RandomUser3510 (talk) 12:51, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Advising someone to change course under the assumption that they are a decent person opposed to racism is not a personal attack. Why are you so triggered by that? Do you want the IP to be racist? Ian.thomson (talk) 22:33, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Ideological spouting is not allowed on Wikipedia, including on talk pages, which are meant to discuss how to improve the article. This includes opinions like "white pride is inherently a white supremacist idea." Kindly stop using the talk page as a forum for your opinion. 92.206.142.146 (talk) 17:12, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Why add all the "used by racists, nazis, white supremacists blabla" things?

FAQ. Read it. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:16, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
But not do the same for articles about black pride, asian pride etc...? https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/anNLr2L_460s.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.29.232.121 (talk) 17:56, 13 December 2020 (UTC) See FAQ #1 and #2 at the top of the page. FDW777 (talk) 18:30, 13 December 2020 (UTC) Because the movements "Asian pride, Black pride, and LGBTQ Pride," aren't affiliated with racial/sexual supremacy whereas white pride is. The article actually describes how "white pride" is different from "black pride." The black pride movement originated with the civil rights movement whereas the white pride movement originated with racial supremacists for the purpose of establishing racial supremacy. In addition, Asian and LGBTQ pride are not racially based, you can be Asian and be white, you can be LGBTQ and also be white. The only difference would be the black pride movement which as mentioned before has is an anti-racist movement meant to ameliorate past conditions, there are no such past conditions in regards to shared experiences for the white community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Desibanter (talk • contribs) 23:10, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Comparing the openings of the "Black pride", "Asian pride" and "White pride" articles.

Read the FAQ at the top of the page. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:16, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
"Black pride is a movement that encourages black people to celebrate black culture and embrace their African heritage." "Asian pride is a term utilized by people all over the world to celebrate their Asian ethnicity but It also has various origins and meanings." "White pride, or white power, is an expression primarily used by white separatist, white nationalist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations in order to signal racist or racialist viewpoints." Hmm... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.58.23 (talk) 22:02, 15 December 2020 (UTC) Read the rest of this page, as you should have done before you posted your comment. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:06, 15 December 2020 (UTC) I know that the majority of my ancestry is Scottish, with some Irish, a few drops of English and Viking, and one Slav from eastern Germany. I can find out what my family's crest and motto are with a simple websearch. I have an ancestor buried on the grounds of my home state's capital (the only person buried there), and I can point out what plot of land my ancestors owned in my home city. I don't need to be proud of being born "white," which is just melanin-deficiency once you remove any benefits gained from institutional racism... So white pride would be either pride in being able to sunburn (which is stupid) or pride in that institutional racism (and there's no way to be proud of that without being a racist). Most black Americans have no way of discovering their ancestry. Their history before a few hundred years ago was wiped out. Even if they figure out what culture they came from, much of that was also destroyed through colonialism. It's reasonable enough for them to say "we came from somewhere in Africa, we survived centuries of oppression, and we should be proud of this." Ian.thomson (talk) 22:38, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Why is White Pride bad, but any other race Prise isn't?

This is not a forum to discuss the topic per se. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This has been playing on my mind for a bit. I've seen how races are able to be proud of themselves and use the term (race) Pride, but White Pride is the only one that is completely negative and inaccurate. This relates more to white supremacist, White Pride is being proud to be white. I don't get how that if someone says they're proud to be white and want to use the term White Pride is bad? I get there has been MANY unfairness, but really? Now every white person is seen as a "white supremacist" "neo-nazi" and whatever else was mentioned in this article. FreyaGoddess777 (talk) 17:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC) "Now every white person is seen as a "white supremacist" "neo-nazi" " Do you have sources for this assertion? Dimadick (talk) 18:07, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Since it's rhetorical hyperbole, they cannot possibly have a cite to back that up. I do agree that they probably don't "get" it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:14, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Unlock please

Why is white pride bad and gay pride good? Surely both are bad. Pride is a deadly sin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.11.225.64 (talk) 01:39, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 June 2020

White pride, or white power, is an expression primarily used by white separatist, white nationalist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations in order to signal racist or racialist viewpoints. It is also a slogan used by the prominent post-Ku Klux Klan group Stormfront and a term used to make racist/racialist viewpoints more palatable to the general public who may associate historical abuses with the terms white nationalist, neo-Nazi, and white supremacist.

Addendum: "White pride" may have at one time been considered racist verbiage in today's society it is being used more as a defensive language as pertains to European or Western Culture. As we see with other forms of pride such as Black pride or LGBT Pride, we see that it should not be racist to also take pride in one's own anglo or "White" heritage. For if all races are to be equal then we all should be able to share the joy of our own unique culture and background without backlash. Notice also the exclusion of the word "Power" just like Black Power or any other form of Race(Power) it is to its root a racist and supremacist term. Theologian.Augustine (talk) 19:43, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

White pride cannot be equated with European culture or Western culture, there are separate movements for both of these two concepts. Take into consideration the history of the other groups you've mentioned. Black Pride and LGBTQ Pride have origins in civil rights movements that went against the thesis of white/straight pride. One group is establishing equality whereas the others show tendency to supremacy. There is no one unified white culture as every single white person (myself included) doesn't share the same experiences.

References

 Not done: You will need to a) provide reliable sources, b) provide a suitable edit in an 'from X to Y' format, and c) establish WP:CONSENSUS for this change first. Best, Darren-M talk 21:02, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

False, consensus is not required for changes to be made. If somebody has a reliable source, they should be bold and make an edit. 92.206.142.146 (talk) 17:09, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

...except, of course, for when the article's protection level conflicts with the editor's status, as was the case here. - SummerPhD^v2.0 01:23, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

We have discussed this repeatedly. The article reflects what independent reliable sources say about the slogan. Please review the FAQ at the top of this page, the rest of the talk page and the archives for further information. - SummerPhD^v2.0 21:04, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 June 2021

White pride is a movement that encourages white people to celebrate white culture and embrace their European heritage. MCNational (talk) 23:53, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done Please see the FAQ above. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:24, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2021

2600:387:6:80F:0:0:0:5C (talk) 22:13, 18 November 2021 (UTC) white pride , is having pride in your race , and heritage

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:24, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect information

While White Supremacists may use this as a slogan, this is a misinterpretation. I don't see the Black Pride page talking about Black supremacists. White pride is simply pride for white culture, race, and our ancestors. This page should be similar to that of the Asian Pride and Black Pride pages. I don't see Arab Pride marked by 9/11 l. Please reconsider the racism in this article. Kameraad Elmo (talk) 22:38, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. These terms dont actually mean anything and are meant to be defamatory against White people who have a racial consciousness. 68.193.197.60 (talk) 01:03, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Read the FAQ. Acroterion (talk) 01:07, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

The differences in the usages of [insert race] pride throughout Wikipedia

Read Q2 of the FAQ at the top of this page EvergreenFir (talk) 06:35, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Why is it that this is the only page that says upfront that pride for THIS specific race is “racist” while others (ex: black pride, Asian pride) have no such thing? I don’t want a copy paste response from Wikipedia authors, nor do I want to deal with pests calling me an evil whitey just because I’m asking a valid question. If you reply with “it’s racist because [insert racist group] uses it” I’ll immediately ignore you because racist groups (regardless of race) also use equal terms. 2600:1700:BD0:73E0:B934:2BA6:287A:95DC (talk) 05:56, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

|}

White pride

repetitive disruption because some people were offended

Why is the definition of "white pride" so different than any other pride available? Every other pride is celebrated and made proud of with dignity and honor. However, if you're proud to be white, like some are proud to have black pride, gay pride, LGBTQ pride, Trans pride, black history month, and everything that separates us. Why is it not ok to be proud you're white when everyone but white is celebrated? Are only whites racist? I think not! You are blaming one race for all of society's issues. No white person should ever have to be ashamed they are having " white pride" just as no POC should be ashamed of black pride. It's the labels such as you did to teach generations behind us, that this is wrong and how it is supposed to be is segregated. Why? Have you ever seen a bunch of kids from all colors under the rainbow play together and not have one issue until the parents walk up or get involved? Racism is taught by books, media, Wikipedia, Google searches, etc. But as a multicultural person, this definition is wrong and needs defined in the correct way. Every other " pride" is exactly that- " pride". Why does the " white pride" definition have to differ? Are you racist? Are you segregating " white" people from their culture and their heritage? Are white people all racist and white nationalist? You have all white pride listed as Neo- Nazi. Are you even fricken kidding me at this point. Is this what we teach our kids to look up? Don't touch that white kid, they're Neo- Nazi pride. Look it up! It says so under " white pride! How sad a society blames " white pride" on being something it is not. Your definition needs fixed, redefined or all prides need to be along the same lines. Your definition segregated white pride. It's amazing the world I see, is full of beautiful colors God put here for ALL of us to be the same. We all are Americans, we bleed the same and love the same. Therfore, categorize us the same instead of how bad the " white pride" is to everyone. Society struggles with racism and doesn't need anymore confusion from Wikipedia. You're here to help not to divide. Be a tool ALL can learn from. The majority of people I know just wants peace for all. Segregation gets us nowhere. We all are loved and need to understand all. Stop labeling something that is not 100% accurate. The media does enough to discourage hating on each other. I hope you can see all people deserve to be proud of who they are, where they come from, and how their culture adds to our beautiful world. Every culture fits so well together. Please stop putting definitions that are not true. Are there bad white groups? Yes, but you're saying the wrong definition for "white pride". Princess Ice 6313 (talk) 14:54, 15 May 2021 (UTC) See the FAQ. References are clear about the racist nature of the term. FDW777 (talk) 14:55, 15 May 2021 (UTC) Then all "prides" need redefined. This isn't true of white pride. This is a lie. " White" pride is NOT a racist ideology. It's what you are thinking. I'm not, nor will I teach that to others as an educational foundation. Princess Ice 6313 (talk) 15:14, 15 May 2021 (UTC) No, all "prides" don't need to be redefined. Per the FAQ, white pride differs from the rest and is of a racist nature. FDW777 (talk) 16:06, 15 May 2021 (UTC) No it is not, "white pride" is the exact same thing as black/asian/whatever pride. By your logic if some racist "black supremacist" group used the "black pride" slogan, then that means that "black pride" is racist. But because Wikipedia simply can't get out of its little echo chamber that wouldn't happen anyway. Swirl0 (talk) 18:06, 5 August 2021 (UTC) Read the FAQ. Acroterion (talk) 16:07, 15 May 2021 (UTC) I would like to read the FAQ to understand this as I think the page is highly inaccurate. However so far I have found nothing in the FAQ. Could anyone perhaps offer a specific section that this would be found? It seems to me that white pride should be separate from white supremacy Jial2000 (talk) 04:43, 6 June 2021 (UTC) The FAQ is on this page, above. It's the second box from the top of the page, the one that's titled "Frequently asked questions (FAQ)". Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:03, 6 June 2021 (UTC) The simple answer to that is that Wikipedia is biased to favour the media's opinion on things. The media considers White Pride as a phrase used by white nationalists, white separatists, et cetera. Whereas, the media considers <Race> Pride as a phrase used by more, how do I say this, moral people. If any "reliable" media were to show white pride as similar to any other pride felt by the other races, then the article would be rewritten. One of the few things where Wikipedia is dumb. --Galahad1822 (talk) 00:24, 15 July 2021 (UTC) I agree with this. NCF29YT (talk) 04:12, 16 January 2022 (UTC) Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2022 I would like to edit this because there is some information on it that is missing and I would like to add it. I promise that I will not vandilize pages and I will fact check my information before I put it on a page. Thanks! RIPpicklesL (talk) 19:48, 1 April 2022 (UTC) You need to provide an actual change you want done, then I or some other autoconfirmed user can do it for you. Dronebogus (talk) 19:53, 1 April 2022 (UTC)  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:57, 1 April 2022 (UTC) Proposal to solve the perceived racism against white people seen by some in this article. WP:SNOW closing, there is no possible way for this to go anywhere constructive without extraordinary evidence of a mainstream alternative view on this topic Dronebogus (talk) 01:10, 15 May 2022 (UTC) I believe the best way to solve this page's problems is to include both viewpoints, which allows the reader to decide for themselves whether they agree with one side or another, following Wikipedia's non-bias policy without going over the top. Reliability is key: there are many different reliable articles from both sides of the political spectrum that can be used to properly describe what "White Pride" really is, some would say it is EXCLUSIVELY racist, some would say it is EXCLUSIVELY neutral, but really both exist, as with most other prides. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikolai Gennadievich Nazarov (talk • contribs) 06:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC) Another potential method to solve the problem is to tear down the article and divide it into 2 articles: one denoting White Pride as a concept and practice with non-racist action, and another describing it's usage within White supremacy. Something similar can be done with other Pride articles to give people a clearer picture of the reality of these subjects. Nikolai Gennadievich Nazarov (talk) 07:05, 13 May 2022 (UTC) "the best way to solve this page's problems is to include both viewpoints" When did you join Wikipedia, yesterday? What you suggest goes against the long-standing policy on false balance: "While it is important to account for all significant viewpoints on any topic, Wikipedia policy does not state or imply that every minority view or extraordinary claim needs to be presented along with commonly accepted mainstream scholarship as if they were of equal validity. There are many such beliefs in the world, some popular and some little-known: claims that the Earth is flat, that the Knights Templar possessed the Holy Grail, that the Apollo Moon landings were a hoax, and similar ones. Conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, speculative history, or plausible but currently unaccepted theories should not be legitimized through comparison to accepted academic scholarship. We do not take a stand on these issues as encyclopedia writers, for or against; we merely omit this information where including it would unduly legitimize it, and otherwise include and describe these ideas in their proper context concerning established scholarship and the beliefs of the wider world." Dimadick (talk) 07:41, 13 May 2022 (UTC) Absolutely. Pseudoscience and related topics have no place on Wikipedia to be expressed viewpoints. Though this is definitely can't be lumped in as something like what you described though, as white people and Europeans at large constitute a significant population and culture. Millions across Europe express pride in a non-racist manner towards their race and culture, with some in America also doing so; albeit more likely to be racially motivated, which is why I made this suggestion. Nikolai Gennadievich Nazarov (talk) 14:30, 13 May 2022 (UTC) There is no coherent concept of “white pride” outside of white supremacy because the “white race” is not an actual thing, it’s a dated and completely arbitrary classification for light-skinned people. What you’re referring to is the cultural heritage of the European diaspora, which is rarely described as one topic outside of simple enthusiasm for Europe or general pan-Europeanism i.e. the EU Dronebogus (talk) 00:00, 14 May 2022 (UTC) This is already addressed by the talk page's FAQ, at the top of this page. That FAQ exists because this has already been discussed countless times before here and elsewhere on Wikipedia. The claim that there are sources from "both sides of the political spectrum" is extremely dubious, for several reasons. If you know of reliable sources which could be useful, propose them here for discussion, but that kind of false balance will exhaust everyone's patience very quickly. Grayfell (talk) 03:19, 14 May 2022 (UTC) Post-closure note: I have reverted this addition by Nikolai Gennadievich Nazarov, who started this thread. The added content claims that the specific phrase "white pride" is also used by a variety of politically ordinary white people to express and embrace their European heritage, but the source that the content cites does not even contain the phrase "white pride". Mz7 (talk) 19:20, 15 May 2022 (UTC) Discrimination in script Hello, whilst i understand the term White pride is used by groups of white people to define their dissatisfaction of what is stated in the text, the words used in the article point that white people are racists and their White pride is related to hating others which as a white person I don't agree with. It is discrimination to write such things ! This article creates hate and should be changed! Why if I write LGBT pride, Asian pride, Black pride shows that these groups are expressing themselves and their culture, but when I check White pride it the text points that this group is rasist group? This is not correct, and the White pride text should be updated or the term White pride should be changed to reflect correctly the text! Regards, ID 2A00:23C8:2D82:BD01:35C5:5FCA:4D74:5D4D (talk) 08:06, 2 June 2022 (UTC) Please read the FAQ above has it answers your questions regarding this article. The long story short is that Wikipedia uses primary and secondary sources that discuss the topic. If you feel this is wrong, then the Wiki FAQ suggests you provide quality sources that support your claims. Please keep in mind Wikipedia is not a place for opinions and these articles are written based on cited sources. If you can find a source that references white pride in a non-racist light, then you are welcome to add that source to the talk page. TheTypingKat (talk) 07:18, 18 August 2022 (UTC) It's appalling how biased this article is I have read through the FAQs yet there doesn't seem to be proper justification for why this article is different to the other pride articles - any time an editor has tried to correct this error they are stonewalled. Ironically this is an actual example of racism towards white people on Wikipedia of all places. Is it possible to get arbitration involving a completely neutral admin (ie. not tainted by left or right politics) to rectify this? 2405:DA40:5118:7700:F142:67E6:6696:DC4 (talk) 08:56, 18 December 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:DA40:5118:7700:44E5:7698:E31:DA87 (talk) Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2022 White Pride in the United States is a movement which encourages white people to celebrate white culture and embrace their European heritage. In the United States, it was a direct response to anti-white racism. Stemming from the idea of White Power, this movement emphasizes racial pride, economic empowerment, and the creation of political and cultural institutions. Related movements include white power, and white nationalism. Concerned Citizenn (talk) 22:35, 10 October 2022 (UTC) https://theracecardproject.com/white-pride-doesnt-mean-white-power/ Concerned Citizenn (talk) 22:39, 10 October 2022 (UTC)  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:44, 10 October 2022 (UTC) Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2022 CHANGE "White pride and white power are expressions primarily used by white separatist, white nationalist, fascist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations in order to signal racist or racialist viewpoints" TO "White pride seeks to encourage white people to celebrate white culture and embrace their Caucasian heritage. And, white power is an expression primarily used by white separatist, white nationalist, fascist, neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations in order to signal racist or racialist viewpoints." Oliver Poveda (talk) 18:26, 25 September 2022 (UTC)  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:33, 25 September 2022 (UTC) This page is biased Please make edits to this page so that it is inline with other racially based interest groups. Neutral terms should be used, and biased sources should not be quoted. [1]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fmou2HuaUAEIOEh?format=jpg&name=medium Nickgold81 (talk) 02:03, 17 January 2023 (UTC) Read the FAQ at the top of this page. Acroterion (talk) 02:23, 17 January 2023 (UTC) Preach Diehl2044 (talk) 22:11, 11 February 2023 (UTC) Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2023 Why is white pride condemned while black pride and gay pride is celebrated. Wikipedia is a leftist group and are anti white propaganda. Most likely ran by jews. 104.251.79.14 (talk) 09:26, 20 January 2023 (UTC)  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EnIRtpf09bchat with me 09:39, 20 January 2023 (UTC) Pride pages Why are all the "of color" pages considered positive while this page is not? 204.9.26.77 (talk) 00:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC) The FAQ at the top of this page covers that. Acroterion (talk) 01:06, 5 June 2023 (UTC)