Talk:White Light/White Heat/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Zmbro (talk · contribs) 19:40, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I got this. I've already made some adjustments myself but thought I'd do the actual thing since I'm already invested. – zmbro _(talk) 19:40, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Initial thoughts

Overall looks very solid. A good job well done. Some things I wanted to get out of the way first:

Genius.com is not reliable per WP:NOTRSMUSIC. If I know correct I believe ref 41 is actually the 2003 list so the 2012 one will need to be accessed somewhere else.

So I had to find out that ref 41 is actually the 2012 list, but it is labeled as 2003 as Rolling Stone did a "slight revision" to it in 2012--I checked the archive of the 2003 list and it corresponded with the info in the section. Refs updated accordingly

Change AllMusic to publisher parameter

Done DecrepitlyOnward (he/they, fine with any, use as you wish) (talk) 20:49, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of the Nico pic use this one, as it actually shows them holding WLWH and by this point Nico was gone (plus it's PD). That could go in the release section

Done

Make sure all ISBN sources have locations of publication (I usually just use the headquarters of the publisher)

Done

Website sources don't need publishers. I noticed that some have those and others don't

I think I've fixed all of these but you can check

Do we have page numbers available for Sounes, Galen/Matthews, and Heylin?

For Heylin, the page numbers are listed in the article, but I can change it to the Harvard citation style for consistency. Sounes was an e-book so the pages would be inaccurate (the ref has the title of the chapter where info came from). As far as Galen/Matthews goes, I don't have the book on hand, but the citation is already supported by Paste, so I can remove it if need be

The personnel section is currently unsourced

Unfortunately I had to remove a lot of the detail because I couldn't verify it. Looking at the article Here She Comes Now this probably came from a book by Peter Hogan, but I have to place an interlibrary loan, which I will do promptly but will probably arrive not within the next week.

Did you check the liner notes? Those can be viewed on Discogs. – zmbro _(talk) 01:44, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Zmbro, yeah. This is the level of detail the liner notes provide (I've checked almost all of the releases, including the super deluxe, but there could be some that I haven't spotted with more detail). DecrepitlyOnward (he/they, fine with any, use as you wish) (talk) 02:31, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ah I got you. Looks like we'll just have to use that for now, unless there's something else we don't know about like you said. I'll add more comments tomorrow. Thanks for the quick responses! :-) – zmbro _(talk) 02:54, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Have you considered adding an audio sample that would show the album's type of style/content?

I went ahead and added a sample of sister ray, as that is often discussed in publications

Based on Acclaimed Music, we could easily create a rankings section for best-of appearances ala Hunky Dory or Aftermath (Rolling Stones album)

Done

I think that's a good start. – zmbro _(talk) 19:56, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and addressed everything above. Thank you for the review, by the way--this is quite generous of you! DecrepitlyOnward (he/they, fine with any, use as you wish) (talk) 23:55, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Zmbro, forgot to ping DecrepitlyOnward (he/they, fine with any, use as you wish) (talk) 00:02, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments

Overall job well done. I checked both newspapers.com and rock's backpages for further reviews/input and found nothing so that's unfortunate:

I've already gone through and changed smart quotes to non-smart quotes (per WP style) but I think there's still some out there so make sure those are taken care of.

Done

"Released in 1968 on Verve Records," could we specify the release date?

Done

"the album took 2 weeks to record" per MOS:NUMS make sure all numbers one to nine are written out

Done

The quote box in recording needs a citation at the end

I MESSED THIS UP BAD. Fixed

"Richie Unterberger, a researcher of the band, places the latest start date for recording as September 5." I feel like this would flow better as a note after "The album was recorded in September at Mayfair Sound Studios at Seventh Avenue in Manhattan," (if you agree I would then link his full name in the next instance it's used)

I agree, done

"Before the release of the album," → "Before its release" ("the album") is said quite a few times in this para)

Reduced mentions of "the album"

Check out MOS:QWQ. I see a few examples where quotes are placed outside punctuation when they should be inside, i.e. "Reed purposefully wanted to go "as high and as hard as we could."" (Usually only complete quotes should have marks outside punctuation).

I think I've fixed all of this

Vary up the word usage, particularly for 'describe', which is used eight times in the content section alone

Done, hopefully

Add alt text to the promo image, and change it to upright (not px) per WP:IMAGESIZE

Done

"The original pressing of the album erroneously titled "Here She Comes Now" as "There She Comes Now."" → was erroneously titled? and the titles should be italicized

Clarified--this is talking about the track listing, not the album title itself

Can we move the quote box in "album cover" to the left? So we don't have five things on the right in a row

Hah, I was thinking about that. Done

"a faint image of a tattoo of a skull." Maybe "a faint image of a skull tattoo."? So "of a" isn't there twice?

Done

"In 1974, the album was reissued by MGM under the title "Archetypes"." shouldn't it be Archetypes? (in italics)

Yes, done

I would convert Heylin to sfn; since you have others like that, seeing [23]:162 just looks odd

Done

Would be able to expand the legacy section with more actual reviews? Since there's AllMusic, Guardian, Record Collector, Uncut, and the Chicago Tribune it seems odd to just let them sit there

Expanded

Unitalicize AllMusic and uDiscoverMusic

done

Ref 21 is missing author and pub date

Done

Link Social Distortion

Done

Drive-by: "David Bowie would perform the album's title track routinely after May 1973," fun fact Bowie covered "I'm Waiting for the Man" before the original even came out

That is...interesting. One more thing on Bowie's long list of accomplishments—proto-punk it is!

"Super Deluxe edition in its 45th Anniversary" → "Super Deluxe edition for its 45th Anniversary"

Done

This is a good stopping point for now. – zmbro _(talk) 16:30, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Saving, not done but 70% there DecrepitlyOnward (he/they, fine with any, use as you wish) (talk) 23:33, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@zmbro, addressed everything above. DecrepitlyOnward (he/they, fine with any, use as you wish) (talk) 00:19, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Final thoughts

Alright, it's looking significantly better. I'm going to do one final read-through and we should be good to go. Btw I just listened to this album (had only ever heard Nico) and wow. They wondered why they had no commercial success when they're over here practically inventing noise rock in the middle of the peace and love era. It's super abrasive, for some reason reminds me of Weezer's Pinkerton (an odd comparison I know). I'm not that huge a fan of Lou Reed (I didn't care much for Transformer and Bowie produced that), but it's very understandable why TVU was so influential. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:49, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The copyvio detector shows a 44.8% score but it looks like most of that is due to quotes that are quoted here so that shouldn't be an issue. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 15:54, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd vary up the word usage again (the word "album" is used 119 times on the page)
"Though Billboard predicted that the album would become a hot-seller for record stores catering to underground acts, the album only briefly appeared on the Billboard Top LPs chart, peaking at number 199." the chart placement is already stated in release – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 16:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Finished everything above.

This record is really interesting--I don't regularly listen to it (primarily because of the 17-minute closing track), and it's not even like VU are one of my favorite bands. The only way I found this was through searching up where Nirvana's cover of "Here She Comes Now" came from. Then I listened to this, and it was surprisingly close to the punk rock I listen(ed) to, even though it was made in 1968. I've always had a distaste for music that sounds "old" (which is probably I prefer Bowie far more than any other "old" artists, even though Bowie is a name nearly all of my friends have yet to know about). When I listened to the intro of "Sister Ray", that is when I got really interested in interesting the album. That song is chaotic, and I love it. If its chaotic now, imagine how it was for '68... DecrepitlyOnward (he/they, fine with any, use as you wish) (talk) 23:16, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Haha right! They really were way ahead of their time. Thanks for cooperating! Everything looks good, happy to ✓ Pass – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 23:45, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]