Talk:Where's My Mind Tour/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Wasted Time R (talk · contribs) 23:53, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have begun reviewing this article. Wasted Time R (talk) 23:53, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
Article shows some prose issues and a lack of proofreading, see below
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
More reliable sourcing is needed, one copyvio spotted, see below
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
A number of important aspects of the tour are not described, see below
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
See below
Overall:
Pass/Fail:
Unfortunately this article is not close to being GA level yet

Re lack of proofreading:

The infobox chronology has this tour in (2017), when in fact it was in 2018.

Similarly, the article is in Category:2017 concert tours, when it should be in Category:2018 concert tours.

Billie Eilish announced her second concert tour, the Where's My Mind Tour, to her first major-label EP, – Tours are not "to" a recording.

Eilish would start the tour with a performance of "Bellyache" – This is probably meant to be "would start shows on the tour".

The staff of The Gazette, say Eilish "wants to bring – the reason for the comma is unclear and the sentence needs to be in past tense.

This set list is representative of the show – It may or may not be representative of the whole tour, but that's not the right word for a set list for a particular show. Moreover, the text says the set list is from a New York show, but the date and cite are to a Minneapolis show. And the set list has "Bellyache" being repeated at the end of the main set, but the cited source doesn't say that. So it's hard to know what to think.

Re prose issues:

It was launched in support of her debut EP Don't Smile at Me (2017), – the tour began half a year after the EP was released. It seems more likely that the tour was launched to give her career as a whole additional visibility. And the term "in support" is outmoded anyway; many artists make more money from their tours and other appearances than they do from their albums/downloads/streams/etc.

If the European shows and the North American shows are considered different legs of the tour, then "legs = 2" could be added to the infobox.

The tour poster, and the Broadway World piece about the tour announcement, say the tour name is the Wheres My Mind Tour, with no apostrophe in the first word. So maybe that should be the article title? Or if you want to have the article title be grammatical, you could give it as an alternate "styled as" name in the first sentence.

Re sourcing:

There are three main sources for this article right now: the BroadwayWorld website, the Music in Minnesota website, and Billboard. Of these, only Billboard is a strong source.

Are there newspaper reviews of the shows that were published the next day? Newspapers.com and similar sites might be a help here. Are there any magazine profiles of Eilish's career that talk about this tour?

At WP:Village pump (policy)#Extremely excessive number of articles on non-notable concert tours, you will see that there has recently been a movement to get rid of tour articles – via prod or AfD or redirect – that don't have clear justification for their existence. I'm a big believer in tour articles, and some years ago I was responsible for the first-ever tour article to receive GA status, U2's War Tour. But tour articles have to have strong sourcing and strong content and be about more than just so-and-so went to these places and played some of their songs.

Re copyvio:

I don't see general signs of copyright violations, but there is one instance: She would throw her hair around, stick her tongue out, and jump around. – this is way too close to the source, which says "She throws her hair around, sticks her tongue out, and jumps around."

Re broad coverage:

This is the biggest issue with the article – many aspects of the tour go undescribed. If you compare this article with other tour articles that are GA, such as Melodrama World Tour or The Fame Ball Tour or Working on a Dream Tour, you'll see that they have much broader coverage than this one does. Some specific items that could be discussed:

Were there any opening acts?

What did the stage look like for these shows? Any unusual aspects? Readers who, say, saw Eilish sing from a chair in a pool of water on the Ellen show, will wonder if there was anything like that during this tour.

What musicians were accompanying her and what instruments did they play? There are a couple of mentions of this but it isn't clear who else, if anyone, was on stage. Were all the instruments live or was she singing to some prerecorded tracks as well?

How long were the shows in duration? Was it pretty much the same set list for every show, or did it vary? If so, what songs were rotated in and out? Was the set list any different for the European shows (which is common if different songs of an artist have differing popularity overseas)?

Were her songs played and sung in the same arrangements as on her recordings, or did she rearrange or re-imagine them for the shows? Did the sequence of songs build up to any greater theme?

The article should make clear that she was only sixteen years old during this tour. It's one thing to make tracks in a studio at a young age, it's quite another to perform in front of the public. What was her stage persona like? Was she nervous? overwhelmed? at ease? What kind of remarks did she make from the stage?

What kind of audiences came to the shows? What was the age range and gender balance of them? How did they react to her performances?

How did this tour do financially? Were shows sold out? Did it vary by geography? A lot of tour articles have box office figures included for all or most of the shows. The article doesn't have to have that for GA status, but it does need to include some kind of discussion of how well the show did from a financial perspective.

What were the European shows like? Did people over there have an idea of who she was by this point?

In interviews, has Eilish reflected on this tour? Did it help her grow as an artist?

Re images:

What is the significance of the scene the tour poster portrays?

Are there any available images taken during one of the show?

In sum, this article needs considerable work to reach GA status, so it's a fail at this point. If you take on improving and expanding it, good luck with the work. Eilish is obviously a serious artist and GA articles can definitely be constructed concerning her artistic endeavors. Wasted Time R (talk) 14:49, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wasted Time R, this review is unacceptable, take a look at That Bass Tour and The Untouchable Tour. Meghan Trainor is also huge and those articles are short and at GA. Billie Eilish wasn't as popular back in 2018 as she is now in 2020. And the poster shows WHAT THE TOUR WAS! I will be disputing this review. The Ultimate Boss (talk) 17:59, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Ultimate Boss: Yes, you are right that this tour took place early in Eilish's career and I am aware that there may not be sources available to answer all the items I raised. But I am sure there are sources to answer a good number of them, and hopefully they will be better-quality sources than the ones that are there now. As for comparison articles, three of the four I pointed to came early in the artists' career, in their first or second headlining tours. As for the two articles you point to, yes they are short, and the reviewer for one of them twice expressed surprise at the shortness but went ahead and passed it anyway. I believe that tour articles can go deeper. A third reviewer may look at things in still another way, that's how the GA process works. Finally, the tour poster shows an image of Eilish in green rain gear standing in the middle of a group of green cloth bags, or something like that. I'm simply asking if there is a sourced explanation of what that scene was meant to signify. It's the equivalent of album articles discussing what the cover of the album represents.

And don't take it personally if someone gives something you worked on a poor review. It happens – different people will look at things differently. I've had nominations get failed, everyone has. In the GA case, the remedy is simple: after looking at the parts of the review you do agree with and making whatever changes you think are warranted to the article, you can nominate it again and you'll get a different reviewer. Wasted Time R (talk) 22:12, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]