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Archive 1

T'Challa / Star-Lord

Dear all, could it be a simple typographic error in this article, with a missing coma, because it' very strange (not Stephen) that Chadwick Boseman will play Star-Lord as this role is performed by Chris Pratt. The only mention in the aformentionned article is She also discusses Captain Carter, Jane Foster Thor, T’Challa Star-Lord and what The Watcher brings to the series. --GdGourou - °o° - Talk to me 06:09, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

No. It's correct. The "what if" scenario is if T'Challa became Star-Lord. The promotional footage also clearly shows this. -- /Alex/21 06:26, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Killmonger

I'll be changing the name of character portrayed by Michael B. Jordan - the source refers to him simply as Killmonger, and to refer to him as Erik Killmonger (as he is named in the comics) contradicts his name as stated in Black Panther. Basically, without any knowledge about his exact name in the alternate universe Marvel is making up, the best bet to avoid original research is to stick to the source, which does not name him as either Erik Stephens or Erik Killmonger. Airbornemihir (talk) 02:17, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Done. Airbornemihir (talk) 02:19, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 18 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) — Paper9oll (📣 • 📝) 16:00, 24 February 2021 (UTC)


What If...? (TV series) → What If...? – Title already WP:NATURALDIS and primary topic for "What If...?". 17jiangz1 (talk) 14:42, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:50, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

place in MCU timeline?

I think this is set just after the end of season 1 of Loki, doesn't anyone think? Visokor (talk) 11:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

We can't do original research and put what we think will be its place in the timeline. We need reliable sources for that. —El Millo (talk) 16:20, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

It takes place all over the place, so we aren't including it in Marvel Cinematic Universe#Timeline. – ChannelSpider (talk) 15:15, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Agree with others, and I don't think it is actually canon to the official MCU since it features alternate realities. I think it can be a part of the Marvel Cinematic Multiverse. Marvel Studios may separately brand them or change the MCU's title, who knows. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 05:51, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Episode articles

Unlike WandaVision, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and Loki season 1, I don't believe that we should create episode articles for this. Any thoughts? – ChannelSpider (talk) 23:18, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Why not? InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:24, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
We will have to see what sort of coverage we get, but I would be surprised if we did not get the same reception coverage as the other series and I am sure Marvel's promotional push will be similar as well. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:46, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
If anything, as this is an anthology series, I would expect individual episodes to be notable in terms of production too as they will differ significantly from each other. IronManCap (talk) 00:49, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
Yes, as with all the series, we'll have to wait and see what we get for sourcing, but I think these might warrant articles. I was planning myself to at least get a mock up of the first episode up in the draft space soon, because we know that is the Captain Carter episode and can at least built a template for what would be an article. IronManCap to your point, while yes an anthology, the animation aspects will still be similar so that's not anything that will differentiate. It'll be writing and casting that will be the big differentiators. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:20, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, I meant the writing aspects would vary. I just don't think we'll have a TFATWS-esque situation where I recall we were really struggling to get the necessary ep-specific writing info, and it'll be more like Loki episodes 5 and 6 with new characters and features for sources (particularly Marvel.com) to discuss. IronManCap (talk) 01:28, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
I think the reason other MCU series had episode articles was due to their notable nature, and as others pointed out, extensive coverage. I don't know if the series will be as popular as WV, FATWS, or Loki, but I don't see the issue of doing it either. I think it should be done. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 05:48, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
As always, we'll start drafts and build them out and evaluate throughout the day of release and the subsequent days after if we feel an article is warranted. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:48, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Alright, so we reached a consensus to create atleast a draft/article for the Captain Carter episode? I see agreements with the points above. – ChannelSpider (talk) 19:06, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Fyi, I have created a scaffold of sorts for the episode article at User:IronManCap/Episode 1 (What If...?), which we can move to draftspace when we get closer to the premiere date. IronManCap (talk) 22:13, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
Excellent! – ChannelSpider (talk) 23:58, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
@IronManCap: If you want to move this to the actual draft space (at Draft:Episode 1 (What If...?)) I think you can. Don't know if you can straight move your draft, or just need to copy it over, but I think that can happen now if you choose. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:32, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
@Favre1fan93: I don't have the page mover rights to move it due to the existing draft, although I could copy it over and add a histmerge request. I would appreciate if you could move it though. IronManCap (talk) 15:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
@IronManCap: Given we would want to basically suppress the existing draft name, you should make the request at WP:RM#TR. An admin needs to perform that. I think that will be the cleanest. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:43, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
🤔 – ChannelSpider (talk) 15:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
Made request as suggested. IronManCap (talk) 16:01, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
IronManCap, and that's done. Please see Draft:Episode 1 (What If...?) ─ The Aafī (talk) 16:22, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
Thank you very much TheAafi. IronManCap (talk) 16:23, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
Ended up doing a round-robin move, which I guess I could have performed. Regardless, it's moved, and if you want to delete the redirect made at your userspace name, you can just nominate it for CSD. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:29, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Johansson and Holland not reprising their roles

ComicBook.com says that ScarJo and Tom Holland won't reprise their roles, although their only source for this seems to be that they were excluded from the released cast list. Should we move Spidey and Black Widow to the "voiced by different actors" prose list or not? --IronManCap (talk) 22:09, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure ComicBook.com only inferred this based on the fact that they weren't on the updated cast list/production brief. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:27, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
I've made this adjustment from the Collider source I added in. I discuss it in my edit summary. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:29, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Production subsections

I'm wondering for the time being if we could combine "Voice recording" and "Post-production" with other sections? I feel like putting it all in with "Animation" would work (at least post to make "Animation and post-production"), but maybe "Voice recording" can go with "Casting"? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:29, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

If we need to combine something then I think "Casting and voice recording" makes sense. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
I think we can merge "voice recording" with "casting" whilst keeping the "casting" header. IronManCap (talk) 19:45, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
Makes sense. – ChannelSpider (talk) 20:04, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

More Funko Pops

In addition to "King Killmonger", there are also Funko Pops for "Party Thor" and "Gamora, Daughter of Thanos", but those names aren't mentioned in any of the sources that I found. Is there any other way we could add this in? InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:56, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

I found sources for "Party Thor" from a while back from CBR and Screen Rant. IronManCap (talk) 20:00, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Yes, but those are leaked images (as CBR notes), so I'm not sure if we can use those as sources. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:02, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Redirect when Party Thor actually appears? – ChannelSpider (talk) 20:03, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
I feel unlike Marvel Legends or Hot Toys, sometimes the name of Pops don't necessarily align with what's in the film/series. So I'd say hold off on these until we see for sure. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:06, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Alright. – ChannelSpider (talk) 20:09, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Animation image - Captain Carter

I was thinking about adding a non-free image to highlight the style of the animation, and felt this one of Captain Carter would work to serve two purposes: 1) to give an example of the animation style that uses actor likenesses, and 2) show Captain Carter on this page because it would add to the material in writing about how she became a prominent character. Thoughts? The only thing about this image, is there could be one in a few months that might show the "process" of the animation that might be better. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:54, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

That sounds good. If a more useful one comes up in future, we can always upload a new version. --IronManCap (talk) 19:43, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
I agree. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:38, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Episode art series posters

A second poster was released and this one is very "Watcher"-inspired and not the one I would expect or feel was good to support the second episode of T'Challa as Star-Lord. Maybe we just see how this plays out with releases and see what might actually work? I think since each episode will so clearly be a certain thing, we should aim to match relevant posters to episodes if we can rather than simply adding in order. Thoughts? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:30, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

I added this in into the Episode 2 draft while you were on wikibreak, but Adamstom.97 reverted my edit with this very reasoning (diff), so I guess the consensus is to wait. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:47, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I totally agree. I reverted myself on the episode 2 draft to wait for a more specific poster. I just noticed the Star-Lord mask on the poster so I thought it was kind of relevant, but it seems to be more of a Watcher character poster. --IronManCap (talk) 16:49, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, outside the triangles with the Watcher's face, (clockwise from top left) there's Captain Carter's shield, a Black Panther-looking suit, Iron Man Mark I/Hydra Stomper mask, Star-Lord mask, a Spider-Man-esque symbol, the Infinity Gauntlet?, and a Wakanda panther. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:37, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
Seems like just an overall season poster rather than an Episode 2 poster to me. – ChannelSpider (talk) 18:15, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
I agree that this poster appears to represent the series as a whole, but isn't that the same situation with the TFATWS episode posters, many of which were not representative of their respective episodes (see this disccusion)? InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:23, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
Yes, but the TFATWS posters released weekly in line with the episodes, whilst we have already had a What If...? poster specific to episode 1, so it makes sense that an ep-specific one for ep2 would be released around the episode's release. – IronManCap (talk) 18:27, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

We've got a Zombies poster now as well. IronManCap (talk) 19:23, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah. Cool one. – ChannelSpider (talk) 20:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I saw that too. Marvel seems to be releasing these posters in no particular order, as the third episode isn't the Zombies one. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:12, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
The first poster clearly lines up with the first episode, but this may indicate that we are not actually getting one poster per episode, especially since multiple are being released now as IronManCap noted. Potentially they are doing 101 plus some general ones now ahead of episode-specific ones each week, but we'll just have to wait and see. I would hold off on adding any poster for 102 until we get one that is clearly for T'Challa / Star-Lord or until the end of the season when we can re-evaluate. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:44, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
So in theory we might need to "pick and choose" the posters that work with the content of the episode. If so we can word the info in marketing as such:
On August 3, 2021, Marvel announced a series of posters created by various artists to correspond with the series.[original Captain Carter tweet] The [number poster in the series] poster, which highlighted [content of the episode], was released on [DATE], designed by [artist].
And the caption can simply mention the number poster it is in the art series. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:58, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
Yup. Seems plausible. – ChannelSpider (talk) 16:23, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 Works for me. InfiniteNexus (talk) 16:31, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I think it should also be worth pointing out the art is fan-art, as the tweets source the original artists. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 06:48, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

It's not "fan-art", the posters have Marvel's copyright on them. - adamstom97 (talk) 11:57, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
Yes, those artists produce the posters specifically for Marvel. IronManCap (talk) 12:17, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

The first animated series from Marvel Studios?

The studio promoted What If...? as its first animated series... as if they never started in 1994 specifically for doing animated series like Spider-Man: The Animated Series up until Marvel Animation was founded.

I get that Marvel Studios says its their first animated series as a production company independent from Marvel Entertainment, but they just chose to ignore completely how their name was attached to shows like X-Men: Evolution and Wolverine and the X-Men (big boss Feige executive produced that one), and it doesn't sound right (at least to me).

I edited, but I have no hard feelings on that, since I did stupid anyway. I would like to ask: What should be done on the matter? Andrei Bondoc (talk) 16:05, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Separate cast list

This is a bit early, but if the series ends up not having a main cast I thought it might make sense to not have a traditional cast list and instead use the {{Episode cast}} template that is used for other anthology series such as Black Mirror and Star Trek: Short Treks to put the main guest cast from each episode into the episode table. We would still have the combined list of voice actors in the casting section. I don't know if it would still make sense to have a separate section for the Watcher or if we could just move all his details to the casting section. Either way, just a suggestion for now and we will need to see how the series credits the actors before we know for sure. - adamstom97 (talk) 08:10, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Definitely open to this once we see how things turn out. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:43, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Alright. Should we revisit this now? – ChannelSpider (talk) 04:34, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Episodes cast

Hi. I am usually here as wiki editor, but this time I'd like to ask something from the other side, those who read Wikipedia. Could you, please, deside to make a "Cast" section in all the episodes articles, as in What If... Captain Carter Were The First Avenger?. The series build more as antology, because each episode does not continue the previous one, so there are many different characters in different episodes. Sometimes even when the same actor plays Black Panther in one episode and Star-Lord in another. Episode oriented cast list will add a lot for the reading experience. Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 16:33, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

This is being discussed above, but generally, yes each episode will hopefully have an article with its cast list, as has been done with the previous MCU live-action series. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:52, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Well, didn't find such a decision there, and do not see a "Cast" section in Breaking the Fourth Wall (WandaVision), only regular "Casting", which does not help at all. IKhitron (talk) 17:26, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Breaking the Fourth Wall (WandaVision) also has an infobox cast listing of the episode's guest stars. I do not see how this is unhelpful for readers. IronManCap (talk) 17:29, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Didn't know I should check the infobox, thanks. Well, it's the next best thing, but still it does not have descriptions as in "real" cast section, which were irrelevent in WandaVision, but crucial here. IKhitron (talk) 17:38, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Ah, I (and presumably Favre1fan93) thought you were referring to the infobox cast listing. Given the sheer volume of characters for the series, having ep-specific bulleted information on each episode article seems feasible to me and potentially worth discussing, although note that characters like T'Challa are expected to be recurring so may be better suited to descriptive prose here. IronManCap (talk) 17:43, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Most of what would be included in such a section is already covered in the writing section though. IronManCap (talk) 18:26, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Yes I was confused by the nature of the question. But as IronManCap mentioned, this info is covered in the lead, infobox, and "Casting" section of the episode articles, and as is being discussed in the discussion above and is coming to light as the series progresses, it might not be as "anthology" natured as previously assumed, in which case, the formatting now would still be best. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:11, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
I definitely spoke about section. About other sections - sure, but for me the cast section as in series or seasons articles is the best. These are different timelines, they can't be continuous. And the news about the new MCU movie, Captain Britain, that continues the first episode, and maybe will be created one day, just confirm that. IKhitron (talk) 20:30, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I think the answer to this is the same as above -- let's wait until the end of the season and re-evaluate. - adamstom97 (talk) 06:57, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Meaning, when the readers will not need it any more. IKhitron (talk) 11:10, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Cast list - how to handle

With the reveal of a bunch more MCU characters appearing from the trailer, I wanted to start a discussion on how we should best handle the cast list for the series. For this discussion, let's assume there will be individual episode articles for each episode. Knowing that, as each article is made, should we just keep The Watcher and any recurring characters here and a generalized statement regarding the rest of the characters? Given the quasi-anthology nature of the series, I would if Adamstom.97's suggestion above that we put the individual characters/cast in the episode table is the right move. Or do we just simply list the characters as they are now, adjusting for order and recurring as each episode comes out? Another thing I've been wondering about was any descriptions for the cast. I don't think we need to go as full as we do with the cast list of the previous three Disney+ series for all non-Watcher characters, but there is probably some benefit of doing something like Based on Peggy Carter, this version of the character received the super soldier serum instead of Steve Rogers for Captain Carter, or Based on Black Panther and Star-Lord, this version of character was abducted by the Ravagers instead of Peter Quill for T'Challa. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:10, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

What would a generalized statement regarding the rest of the characters look like? —El Millo (talk) 22:14, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Due to the large number of cast members, I am wondering if we should try to stick to a basic bullet point list like we have, with no description, leave other details for the production section and/or episode articles for now, and just adjust the list for recurring / order. Then we can reevaluate at the end of the season to see what makes the most sense. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Oh so the current state of the cast list would be the generalized statement? It makes sense to keep it as concise as possible, if most of these characters will be limited to one episode appearance. We can be much more exhaustive in the episode-specific articles without cluttering this up, as the list will only increase in time. My guess is we'll probably end up putting them in prose. —El Millo (talk) 22:51, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
@Facu-el Millo: a "generalized statement" in my though, if we just did The Watcher and recurring characters here, would be something like "A number of additional MCU characters and actors appeared, some reprising their roles from past films." That way, like you said, we don't include all of the single/small role appearances, but can expand upon them on the episode articles. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:37, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Well, in that case, we'll have to wait until the episodes premiere to remove the info from this article. So far it hasn't become impossibly long, so there's no rush. —El Millo (talk) 18:49, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
I would be on-board with a generalized statement for now, and making a more informed decision about the billing order after the fact, but I'd also be on board with anything that's agreed-upon by consensus. That being said, we know that specific stars were given top billing over others particularly for Infinity War and Endgame due to the fact that both of those films were the final "swan song" for 3 of the OG 6 Avengers. So I think we can also make epsidoe-specific billing decisions as each episode airs, with the main and supporting cast credited in each episode. Once we have a better idea of the number of episodes in which each MCU character appears, my recommendation would be to adjust the billing order specific to the number of episodes that each character has then appeared in. It wouldn't make sense, IMHO, for someone featured in 2 or more episodes to be billed on this page below someone who only appeared in 1, and we might very well find that the billing order used for Infinity War and Endgame wouldn't be an effective way to list billing on the series overall. Just a few thoughts form me that came to mind as I read the previous comments. --Jgstokes (talk) 22:07, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

As we ponder whether to use prose or cast list, I have removed the Starring/Recurring/Guest subsections since that's not how they're classified. I have also broken out the cast list in two - those who have appeared and those yet to appear. Those who have already appeared are ordered by the end credits since the opening credits are intentionally leaving out some people to avoid spoilers. The rest are alphabetical by last name. That said, this is still going to be an extremely long list and we still need a permanent solution.— Starforce13 14:25, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

I think we should retain the headings because this is an anthology series and we shouldn't be lumping every single opening/end credits actor in with "starring". We're able to determine who will be a guest in each (not Wright) and then figure out recurring based on the number of appearances. See my change here for what I'm thinking. For example, it's likely Bradley Whitford isn't returning for a future episode, so I don't think it would make sense to just have a singular list. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:52, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
I think we should switch to {{Episode cast}} then like we do in List of Black Mirror episodes instead of calling them "guests" which isn't how they're credited, and especially since they play a much bigger role than the narrator.— Starforce13 23:15, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
The reason I'm hesitant about this is, though it's been described as an anthology, of which Black Mirror is a great example, I think ultimately there's going to be more connectivity in these episodes between characters. So in that instance, a Starring/Recurring/Guest seems more appropriate. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:16, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
How about we ignore all rules and organize the cast list by the episode in which they are introduced in? Would that work? We already have a general idea of who appears in Episodes 2 and 3, so we can start with that. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:11, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Given that the current guest starring list already long, this could very well become a problem once it gets renewed for second season. — YoungForever(talk) 23:29, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
@YoungForever: once season articles are made, the goal is to simply include Wright here and note how 50+ MCU actors reprised their roles, leaving the listings to each individual season page. That's going to be the best way to handle this. I have a prep and mockup of it in my sandbox here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:33, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Should we list non-speaking characters such as Chester Phillips? I have seen other animated films and TV series articles that do this. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:05, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Do you mean something like Chester Phillips appears in a non-speaking role? —El Millo (talk) 04:11, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
I was thinking either a bulleted list like this and this, or a one-sentence description like this. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:20, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
Also just a note that Heinz Kruger and the other Howling Commandos also appear in non-speaking roles. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:40, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
If anything, just note these, sourced, on the episode articles, not here. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:16, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
That seems like a good way to handle that. IronManCap (talk) 17:16, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Keeping the non-speaking roles at the episode articles seems like the right move to me. As for the cast list here, I still think we need to leave it as is and decide what to do at the end of the season. Having this discussion every few days when we haven't learned anything new isn't going to get us far. - adamstom97 (talk) 07:00, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Another scrapped idea

Hi fellas. Here's a link to a Vanity Fair interview with A.C. Bradley in which she reveals an scrapped episode featuring Captain Hydra with Peggy Carter, Howard Stark, Bucky Barnes and even Red Skull teaming up to stop him due to being a renegade (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/08/what-if-marvel-unused-stories). ---- 190.237.157.242 (talk) 05:29, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

This has been added to What If... Captain Carter Were the First Avenger?. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:31, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

T'Challa Star-Lord

According to this official tweet from Marvel Studios, "T'Challa Star-Lord" appears to be the character's full name, without the slash. Official merchandise also use this name, without the slash. So, should we change it? InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:22, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Could do, or we can just see tomorrow how he is credited. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Update: the official GotG Twitter account has also changed their name to "T'Challa Star-Lord". InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:39, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Category

What If...? In the category is placed in American Adult animated series. There is an error here. What If...? Looks nowhere to be for adults only. Can you rectify the mistake. Seaweed Brain1993 (talk) 15:35, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

 Done - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:50, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Recurring

Should we move Fury, Barton, and other recurring characters from Guest to Recurring? --Wansawansa (talk) 10:25, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Per consensus, 4 episodes qualifies as recurring. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, what Favre said. – ChannelSpider (talk) 14:21, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Comic Books

no mention in this article of the comics series starting in the 1970s, which was the inspiration for this tv series. oversight. im not logged in. please add a link.50.193.19.66 (talk) 17:04, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

That is not true. The What If...? comics are mentioned throughout the article, starting with the very first sentence. Please check again. IronManCap (talk) 22:40, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Production brief and voices

An editor recently added an unused ref, which prompted me to find the production brief on the show. This brief lists many more actors to be reprising their MCU roles, including Cumberbatch, who's been stated not to be reprising his role previously. Should we list only those who are in accordance with what we already know, or does an official document like this one override anything any secondary source has said? I'll go ahead and add those whose characters were already slated to appear without a voice actor confirmed or without reports of non-reprisal. —El Millo (talk) 04:51, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I'd say this clearly overrides secondary sources. InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:00, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
Okay, I added Benedict Cumberbatch. Should we go ahead and include those whose character wasn't confirmed beforehand, or is that WP:OR? —El Millo (talk) 05:30, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
The production brief says What If...? features the voices of more than 50 MCU cast members who reprise their roles, so... InfiniteNexus (talk) 05:38, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
Ok, I'll unhide them. —El Millo (talk) 05:43, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
The brief is good for the time being to put actors with expected characters. But as we've seen with T'Challa / Star-Lord, Captain Peggy Carter, etc., once they appear, if they have new character/hero names, we'll fine an updated source. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:20, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Should we mark which MCU actors return for the show and which ones replace others? Red4Smash (talk) 00:04, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

We do this at the episode articles already. Further changes to the cast listing here should probably be left for now per the discussion at #Cast list - how to handle above. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:16, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
I think there should be at list one compact sentence here, "The MCU actors X, Y, Z, ... were replaced by others in the series." IKhitron (talk) 13:21, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Not for the cast section. This is noted in Casting, where it is more appropriate. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:01, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Of course. But now it's hard to get this data from the last paragraph. IKhitron (talk) 01:51, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
How is listing them hard? The whole paragraph discusses the use of non-returning actors, with the production's reasoning, and then Bautista as a specific example of feeling he wasn't asked. Then we list all the characters appearing with new actors. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:35, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
Exactly. If I need the data, I need to look for pieces in that paragraph. And I still do not sure that there all of them appear, including any episodic roles in MCU. IKhitron (talk) 13:34, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
Well, noone answers any more. So, maybe I'll just do it by myself. Create such a sentence and put it here, on talk page, in this section. To move it to the article on not - your choice. IKhitron (talk) 15:12, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
@IKhitron: again, I'm still unclear as to exactly what you are trying to get added or changed, but we are conveying all the casting info properly: the cast list shows actors and characters, with future appearing characters noted below the known actors as appearing with new voice actors. And then the casting section lists all the returning MCU actors and characters as revealed at SDCC and the production brief, then the explanation that some actors didn't return and why, followed by those characters and their new actors. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:26, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
I'm trying to show information that I needed, and did not find anywhere. You can see the result if and when I'll put it here. IKhitron (talk) 15:33, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
But again, what is that information? It appears to me all of what you wish to see is there and appropriately convey on this (being a "main" page), with further info on the individual episode articles (as appropriate). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:58, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
Again, you'll see. IKhitron (talk) 17:13, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Why are you being cryptic? If you can't mention what it is, it obviously has no relevance to being added or changing the article. Editors should present clear "X should change Y" elements so others can understand and properly weigh in on their merit. You have yet to do that clearly. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:37, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Not at all. I already said exactly what it could be, and exactly why. If it isn't enough, maybe the result will explain better. IKhitron (talk) 12:52, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Episode List

I noticed that the episode list includes the entire plots of the episode giving away virtually everything that happens in the episode. I've never seen Wikipedia give away spoilers in this fashion. Take episode 3, which is a classic "who done it". The text for this episode not only tells "who done it" but also "why" and tells the "twist" at the end. Is this allowed? Mconwell (talk) 15:25, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

The episode list includes the entire plots of the episode giving away virtually everything that happens in the episode. I've never seen Wikipedia give away spoilers in this fashion. That's what the Plot (or ShortSummary prameter) section is, meant to tell the entire plot of an episode, within 200 words of course. — ChannelSpider (talk) 15:51, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
You also want to familiarize yourself with WP:SPOILER, which states that spoilers are very much allowed and shouldn't be excluded because they are considered such. The plot summary of a released episode should convey the entire contents of the episode, not dancing around points because it might spoil it for someone. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:02, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
Pretty much every TV show article on Wikipedia has these summaries, this is not a new thing for What If...?. - adamstom97 (talk) 22:28, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Rachel McAdams

Hi. Actually, she played Dr Strange too. Should we add this? IKhitron (talk) 15:25, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

No, as that was just Strange in disguise as Christine Palmer, similar to Sam Jackson in Spider-Man: Far From Home playing Nick Fury, although actually Talos in disguise. IronManCap (talk) 15:31, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Is Episode 5 titled "... Zombies?!" or "... Zombies!?"

Hello, Just wondering — which are we going with here? Is Episode 5 titled "What If... Zombies?!" or "What If... Zombies!?". The official Twitter account listed it as "?!", but Disney+ lists it as "!?". Makes sense that there's a discrepancy — it's more common to write a question mark before an exclamation point, but it seems they changed it to put the exclamation mark first so they keep up the consistent theme of having every episode title start with "What If..." and end with "?". So which are we going with as the official episode title? Paintspot Infez (talk) 17:20, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

I would go for the Disney+ title for consistency with the others, as that's how we titled things previously (e.g. 101: Twitter said "Captain Carter was the First Avenger", Disney+ said "were the First Avenger"). IronManCap (talk) 19:52, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
We should go with the Disney+ title, as that's official. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:55, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Episode 6

Episode 6 was revealed to be the Killmonger and Iron Man one, based on today's Killmonger poster. Did anyone start a draft for that one yet? I didn't see it in the Marvel Studios draft space. 107.137.207.3 (talk) 18:05, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Or the MCU draft space, rather. 107.137.207.3 (talk) 18:29, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Hi 707.137.207.3! The draft has been created at Draft:Episode 6 (What If...?). Feel free to check out, needs cleanup however. — ChannelSpider (talk) 19:21, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
Great, thanks! 107.137.207.3 (talk) 20:10, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
No problem. — ChannelSpider (talk) 07:12, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Episodes 6 & 7

When will individual pages for the two episodes be created? Mainly since the episodes aired? Austin012599 (talk) 16:25, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@Austin012599: You can see them at Draft:What If... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark? and Draft:What If... Thor Were an Only Child?. Feel free to participate in the mainspace discussion of Draft talk:What If... Killmonger Rescued Tony Stark?. — ChannelSpider (talk) 16:27, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Is it still an anthology series?

Should we still considering it an anthology series? I make this question due to the recent connections between episodes. AxGRvS (talk) 04:24, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I'd say Yes, especially given that each episode takes place in a literal different universe Like, you'd still call Black Mirror an anthology even though they referenced other episodes more and more as time went on. Paintspot Infez (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Rights

Is this worth mentioning? That the rights of the Watcher were originally with Fox which concerned Bradley? Kailash29792 (talk) 07:20, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Not here. If anything, The Watcher (Marvel Cinematic Universe) or Watchers (Marvel Cinematic Universe). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:56, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
Yeah. Probably with the Watcher draft. ChannelSpider (talk) 22:52, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2021

change The Watcher returns Strange, Carter, T'Challa, Gamora, and Thor to their respective universes. Romanoff refuses to return to her barren universe, so the Watcher brings her to the universe in which this universe lost it’s widow and Avengers

to The Watcher returns Strange, Carter, T'Challa, Gamora, and Thor to their respective universes. Romanoff refuses to return to her barren universe, so the Watcher brings her to the universe in which this universe lost its widow and Avengers

minor grammatical fix on the it's->its Aralenormaki (talk) 15:18, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

 Already done Looks like this was already changed to slightly different wording. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:33, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Strange-Supreme, with a hyphen.

The end credits of "What If... the Watcher Broke His Oath?", with the white text against a black screen, have Benedict Cumberbatch credited as "Dr. Stephen Strange / Strange-Supreme", with a hyphen between Strange and Supreme. Dealmaces (talk) 21:57, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

True, but no reliable sources include the hyphen. Also, we don't need to follow the end credits 100%, see "Rick Mason" in Black Widow (credited as "Mason") and "Hank Pym / Yellowjacket" in What If...? episode 3 (credited as "Hank Pym / "Yellow Jacket"). InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:44, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
How is the episode itself not a reliable source? Dealmaces (talk) 13:28, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
When I say reliable sources, I mean reliable, secondary sources. The episode itself is a primary source. InfiniteNexus (talk) 15:04, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
Also, just noticed that the end credits of Episode 8 list him as "Strange Supreme", without the hyphen. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:25, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2021

Last edit broke the episode table code. 2602:306:C539:2000:68B3:BE50:3FE6:9590 (talk) 19:51, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

 Fixed —El Millo (talk) 19:56, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Why is Chadwick the only one in recurring?

Chadwick isn't the only actor who's recurred now, nor was he the first. Samuel L. Jackson, Jeremy Renner, Danai Gurira, Sebastian Stan, Mark Ruffalo and others have recurred. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:26e1:e601:c58f:7378:ff41:b457 (talk) 10:28, 9 September, 2021 (UTC)

@2001:8003:26E1:E601:C58F:7378:FF41:B457:, 4 appearances qualifies as a "recurring role". Boseman has been sourced to voice different versions of T'Challa in 4 episodes, the rest you mentioned have appeared in 2 episodes. — ChannelSpider (talk) 10:34, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
If an actor appears in more than one episode of a series and is not part of the show's regular cast, they are considered recurring regardless of the number of episodes in which they appear. In this case, Wright is the only series regular, while Boseman, Jackson, Renner, Gurira, et al. are all recurring as they appear in more than one episode. Where did you get the idea that an actor has to make a minimum of four appearances to be considered recurring? Please tell me that's not some goofy, arbitrary Wikipedia rule. --ThylekShran (talk) 03:59, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
The definition of a recurring cast member can be found at MOS:TVCAST. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:30, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
The definition, per that page:
A cast member or character appearing in more than one episode, or in two or more consecutive episodes, does not necessarily mean that character has a "recurring" role. An actor or character may simply have a guest role across several episodes, rather than a recurring story arc throughout the show. If reliable sources cannot adequately distinguish between recurring or guest roles, then local consensus should determine their status.
So nothing about having to appear in at least four episodes; they have to play the same role in more than one episode, which is basically what I said. In this series, Boseman, Jackson, Renner, Ruffalo, Gurira, Stan, Tom Vaughan-Lawlor, Mick Wingert, and Josh Keaton each play an alternate version of their respective character in more than one episode. While each episode of this show takes place in a different universe, each of these actors are essentially playing one role in multiple episodes, which means they qualify as recurring actors, per WP's definition. --ThylekShran (talk) 06:53, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
EDIT: Okay, I just re-read it and I see now that the actor/character has to have a "recurring story arc throughout the show." So it's a goofy, arbitrary Wikipedia rule then. ::sigh:: That figures. Anyway, going by that definition, What If...? currently has *zero* recurring roles. Boseman, like the other actors named above, is voicing multiple versions of a character, not the same character with a recurring arc. In the real world, however, if it's the same actor in the same role — or even different versions of the same role — in more than one episode, then it's considered a recurring role. But if that's how WP wants to define it, then... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. --ThylekShran (talk) 07:23, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
I actually agree with the above that "recurring" needs to be adapted to the series in particular, given that it is not an actual policy but only a guideline; many of MOS:TV's guidelines are adapted to be relevant for a series in question. Four episodes makes sense if it is a fall series with a full 22-episode order, but that makes for almost half of the season in this case. I would recommend that we lower the guideline to at least three episodes, given the short season. The characters are not the same in each episode, given that they are all variants of each other in alternate timelines, so that means we need to consider the actors and the number of their appearances. So far, that only considers Gurira in three episodes, but with 11 actors appearing in two episodes thus far (Stan, Jackson, Renner, Vaughan-Lawlor, Kani, Gurira, Ruffalo, Wingert, McGill, Bibb, Favreau), this will change with the remaining three episodes. -- /Alex/21 07:40, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Actually, I now agree with Alex. 3 episodes will be the route here considering the 9-episode season. This puts Boseman and Gurira currently as the only "recurring". — ChannelSpider (talk) 14:08, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
We agreed that we would reconsider the cast list at the end of the season, but go with the standard format and 4 eps recurring until then. I'm not convinced that there should be a standard cast list at all considering there is very little crossover between the cast lists of each episode and any returning voice actor so far has technically been playing a separate character. My preference would be to transition to using {{Episode cast}} for starring cast members in the episode table like is done for other anthology series, and replace the full season cast list with a prose overview similar to The Mandalorian#Cast and characters. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:59, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
I would definitely agree with this, both moving the cast to the episode table with the relevant template, and converting the section to a prose form. That will also get rid of the unweildy cast list we have at the moment, which would only be sure to expand with Season 2, as well as remove any need to define "recurring" or "guest". -- /Alex/21 00:50, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
I just want to note that the plan once season 2 comes around and we split off to season articles, is to move the cast list as it is currently fully to the season 1 article, and just leave Wright listed here. Examples can be seen in the 2 drafts, Draft:What If...? (season 1) and the new main article. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:52, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
Revisiting this, as I see the update was reverted, which I most certainly disagree with. No comments were made above concerning the irrelevance of the four-episode rule for this particular series, and Boseman is in no way more recurring than any other guest. Favre, can you please make the connection for me as to how four episodes in a fall 22-episode season, and four episodes in a nine-episode season, have the same "rule"? I don't actually recall four episodes being in the MOS either way. Appearing in a third of the series clearly makes the actor recurring. I agree with Adam's comment last week, in that we shouldn't have a standard cast list here, season articles or no (Season 2 may not appear for years yet). "Recurring" and "Guest" very clearly have different meanings for this particular series, so it makes no sense to go by the same standard "consensus", which has no MOS or guideline support. -- /Alex/21 03:09, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
agreed, this four episode thing seems to have just appeared out of thin air. It doesn’t seem to have any consensus in terms of its application on here, isn’t any kind of official project standard for these sorts of things and has no precedent in the actual industry. No clue what’s going on. Davefelmer (talk) 10:16, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

@Davefelmer: That's actually all incorrect. This didn't appear out of thin air. Per the past Marvel Television series, plus Marvel Studios' MCU series, 4 is generally the number considered for recurring character per MOS:TVCAST, which is sometimes altered to 3 if there are a small episode count (ie Falcon Winter Soldier and Loki). As WandaVision also was 9 episodes and also used 4 episodes for its recurring status, that's what we started with, with the caveat that we were going to reexamine this once the season ended to see what actually happened with appearance numbers. There seems to be growing consensus to change to 3 episodes for recurring, but again, we're going to reassess once episode nine is released this Wednesday. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:48, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Recurring reevaluation

By the end of season 1, using recurring as 4 episodes, Samuel L. Jackson, Chadwich Boseman, and Mick Wingert satisfied that parameter. If recurring is redefined as 3 episodes, the following would be added:

  • Toby Jones as Arnim Zola
  • Josh Keaton as Captain America
  • Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye
  • Danai Gurira as Okoye
  • Tom Hiddleston as Loki
  • Lake Bell as Black Widow
  • Alexandra Daniels as Captain Marvel
  • Benedict Cumberbatch as Doctor Strange

I've excluded Ross Marquand and Fred Tatasciore, both who voiced in 3 episodes, but that was over multiple completely different characters and none individually reached 3. Given it is still 9 episodes in the season, I think 4 is the proper amount to define recurring versus those who were just guest. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:14, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

It should definitely be three instead of four. Four feels very insufficient and excludes people like Benedict Cumberbatch and Hayley Atwell who’s characters were major parts of the series, much more so than Wingert’s Iron Man for instance. Davefelmer (talk) 00:52, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
  • Looking at the characters that would be included were we to switch to three, I think three is the best choice. We should take into account that this is supposedly an anthology series, so the threshold for qualifying as recurring being lower than for a series such as WandaVision is justified. —El Millo (talk) 01:23, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
Instead of discussing a traditional recurring section, I would like to return to the previous proposal that we take out the full cast list and replace it with episode lists in the episode table. The current format has got two sets of long lists (cast and casting) plus each list is also at the episode articles twice, and many characters are not really noteworthy from a series/season perspective, only per episode. My proposal is that we include the cast members from the opening credits of each episode in the episode summaries using {{Episode cast}}, and we replace the current cast section with an overview that has a paragraph on the Watcher and a paragraph on characters (not cast members) who appear in multiple episodes (i.e. Star-Lord T'Challa but not the other versions of T'Challa). The casting section can still have the full list of new and returning voice actors. When we split out season articles, I suggest that they get the paragraphs about characters who appear in multiple episodes, while the series article would have characters who appear in multiple seasons like Captain Carter. If either of those paragraphs end up getting too long then we could discuss adding a three or four episode limit then. Thoughts? - adamstom97 (talk) 03:08, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
By episode lists in the episode table, do you mean something similar to this edit by Rogue1601? I think we could have that and still have a recurring characters bullet list, but this could help remove the huge list of characters. We could still just remove this huge list, as they're already mentioned in the Casting sections both here and at each episode's respective article. —El Millo (talk) 03:22, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
Here is a mock-up of what I am proposing. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:26, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
I like this format, I endorse using this. Davefelmer (talk) 03:32, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm okay with this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:26, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
I have made the change. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:00, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

@Adamstom.97: How do you think we should handle the season 1 draft section? I've just made both in sync, with the exception of the cast list at the season one draft. Should we maybe move over the current second paragraph to the draft, and then just use The season is narrated by Jeffrey Wright as the Watcher, a member of the alien Watcher race who observes the multiverse. to start it? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:18, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that is what I had in mind as well. I'll make that change at the drafts. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:22, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

If the standard definition for "recurring" was two episodes, then this would include the major people in each episode, if you get what I mean. 68.50.116.194 (talk) 20:22, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

This has already been resolved, but regardless, "recurring" is most definitely not two episodes. That's just a guest star. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:39, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Cast breakdown

Breakdown of each episode's main billing, plus cast list. Actors in bold indicate the first appearance of the character, with the episodes they appear in after.

References to the Multiverse in the MCU prior to "What If . . . ?"

I know there has been a lot of back-and-forth edits and subsequent reverts about the "Premise" section with reference to the Multiverse. I do not believe it is accurate or correct to say that the multiverse was "introduced" in this particular Disney+ series. That is primarily due to the fact that the first two times the Multiverse was mentioned, that occurred well before the "What If . . . ?" series aired on Disney+. In Doctor Strange's origin story, Wong informs Strange that "word of the Ancient One's death will spread throughout the Multiverse." And in Spider-Man: Far From Home, Quentin Beck attempts to pass himself off as someone from another universe, which leads to Peter Parker exclaiming: "There really is a multiverse."

I know that some who read this will probably be inclined to point out that these are two isolated lines, and that the first real evidence we have of the multiverses' existence did not occur until the beginning of this animated anthology series, and I can understand that reasoning. But I wanted to mention those prior references here just in case any ensuing discussion is able to resolve the existing back-and-forth edit summary arguments about the terminology in question.

My personal opinion and preference would be to somehow convey that, despite the previous references to which I alluded, the aim, scope, and breadth of the multiversial concept was not fully explored or expanded upon until this series. While I don't know the best way to convey that, I also don't think the edit summary bickering will be condusive to a constructive solution. Do any of you have any thoughts on this? --Jgstokes (talk) 08:19, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Sources which state that the Multiverse was created in Loki: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]. While the "Multiverse" was previously used to refer to the various dimensions of the MCU in Doctor Strange, the term appears to have evolved to refer to alternate universes or timelines. Thus, this incarnation of the Multiverse was first introduced in Loki. Remember, before this, any alternate universe that deviated from the "Sacred Timeline" would be pruned by the TVA, while the Endgame timelines were reset when Cap returned the Stones. InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:10, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
Per InfiniteNexus, there are multiple sources as they provided which use "created", so we should follow suit. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:40, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

I'll reatate what I've stated before. There has always been alternate realities, even when the TVA was maintaining a "Savred Timeline." There is a reality where Loki is female, or black, or an alligator, or survived Thanos. The TVA pruned those realities eventually, but they were allowed to exist for quite some time.

https://screencrush.com/michael-waldron-interview-loki

In an interview, Michael Waldron was asked how could there be so many alternate timelines and variants if there is only 1 Sacred Timeline. Waldron explains that there are infinite concurrent instances of time, each its own timeline/universe, and there are fluctuations in those instances. The example given in the interview is in ten instances of the interview, five times Waldron says "Hello," four times he says "Hey, nice to meet you," and one time he says "Hey man, f--- you. I don't want to do this interview." According to him, that's just how time works. There are always little variations.

Waldron then explains that the TVA has a baseline: the timeline must produce He Who Remains. If an event happens that sabotages the birth of He Who Remains and leads to a new variant (i.e. a Kang), then the TVA takes action for that's what the TVA is trying to prevent. Otherwise, for minor fluctuations, they wouldn't take action. Waldron states that if you zoomed into the Sacred Timeline, it wouldn't necessarily look like a straight line; it would look like intertwined strands of rope fluctuating and spiking here and there. Those spikes are branching timelines that aren't branching enough or in a way for the TVA to care. That's why there are so many different and radical variants.

If you are The Watcher, and you observe the infinite realities while the TVA was maintaining the Sacred Timeline, you would still find differences in those realities. You can look in one universe and see that Waldron said "Hello," or another universe where he said "Hey." You could watch the Classic Loki universe for thousands of years, watching him do things he's not supposed to in the Sacred Timeline for thousands of years, without the TVA doing a thing because it wouldn't affect the outcome of producing He Who Remains instead of Kang.

In other words, the multiverse and alternate realities were always a thing even with the Sacred Timeline. The Sacred Timeline merely limited the possibilities of the multiverse, but there was still a multiverse and there were still variations within the multiverse. Desperatefisherman (talk) 06:33, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

I must side with Desperatefisherman here. Many of the sources cited by InfiniteNexus do not call it a creation but use other terms, which are much more ambiguous and sometimes even contradictory within the same article. The Variety source says the multiverse is reborn, introduce Kang and the Multiverse, and then creation of the multiverse, saying that it both existed and didn't exist before.[1] Empire talks about the Multiverse's arrival, the birth of the Multiverse, but then cites head writer Waldron saying blow the lid on the Multiverse, which doesn't mean to create but to reveal the truth about something.[2] The Marvel.com source cites director Herron saying the multiverse would be born and open again, which is confusing on whether it's born or born again.[3] Mashable talks about a new era of the multiverse, spark the multiverse, ... a 22nd century scientist who discovered the multiverse, creating multiverses, timelines split into multiverses, and the Marvel multiverse to crack open and start crossing over, most of these imply preexistence, but two imply the opposite.[4] The CBR article is a weird one to analyze because it's all open speculation based on a Reddit theory, so it seems best to just disregard it.
Then I found a Wired article, which says Loki just blew up the timeline of the Marvel multiverse and opening up the multiverse, both of which imply a preexistence.[5] An Inverse article first talks about Wanda's potential to create a multiverse, but then taks about Kang who unlocked the doors to the multiverse and Kangs from the multiverse have now received an official invitation to restart the Multiversal War, both of these quotes implying preexistence.[6] There's a Screen Crush interview with Waldron, in which he says Time travel basically is the multiverse, implying it exists before since we see time travel in Endgame. According to the article, Waldron actually explained once and for all how time travel works in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and Waldron says: infinite instances of time always occurring at once. So you and I are having this conversation right now. There’s another instance of us having this conversation 10 seconds ago. There’s another instance of time of us having this conversation 10 seconds in the future.[7] A GamesRadar+ article says: Loki has opened up the multiverse. He Who Remains' demise has caused the once-isolated Sacred Timeline to fully branch off into different paths and, potentially, collide with other timelines. They cite Herron, who talks of the timelines as bridges: If you imagine the branch, it is another reality. But if the branch extends beyond a certain point, it will then connect to other physical timelines. This too says the alternate timelines already existed, just that now they're starting to collide with each other.[8]
I recently found this article from Nerdist, which explains every instance of alternate dimensions and the multiverse in the MCU, and seems to be very useful to this discussion.
TL:DR – So, it seems sources are at the very least in conflict with each other, sometimes in conflict with themselves. What I see, though, is neither Herron nor Waldron ever said it was created. They both state in one way or another that the multiverse was there in some form or another and that this was an opening or unraveling of the multiverse. That said, in order to just avoid any conflict, we could just use the word introduction, because it could refer both to the creation of it and to its first proper appearance in the MCU. That way, we're not contradicting any reliable source and we're not being inaccurate. If we're just looking for either using creation or something else, I think creation evidently isn't the way to go. —El Millo (talk) 07:32, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
Changed the word from "creation" to "establishment" which is clearly used in the second of the two sources used in this paragraph, and while being more ambiguous than "creation" (it may or may not mean that), more fully allows for the events of subsequent films. Bastique ☎ call me! 18:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/loki-director-kate-herron-cliffhanger-jonathan-majors-1235022099/
  2. ^ https://www.empireonline.com/tv/news/loki-writer-michael-waldron-blowing-lid-multiverse-exclusive/
  3. ^ https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/loki-cliffhanger-tva-he-who-remains-kang
  4. ^ https://mashable.com/article/loki-season-1-finale-multiverse-whats-next
  5. ^ https://www.wired.com/story/loki-marvel-multiverse/
  6. ^ https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/loki-finale-set-ups-marvels-multiverse-spider-man-avengers-5-doctor-strange
  7. ^ https://screencrush.com/michael-waldron-interview-loki-heels/
  8. ^ https://www.gamesradar.com/loki-multiverse-explained-director-kate-herron/

Season 2 release

FYI, in the Ms. Marvel Production Brief, Feige's bio lists the season as still coming this year, and it's placed after She-Hulk. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:54, 17 June 2022‎ (UTC)

So probably means an Octotober/November premiere if it truly comes after She-Hulk. -- Zoo (talk) 07:02, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, probably. Maybe November after the Halloween special. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:27, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Phase Four No More

As of July 26th, What if... is a part of Marvel Animation Studios and—along with the upcoming I Am Groot, Spider-Man: Freshman Year, Marvel Zombies, and Spider-Man: Sophomore Year—is no longer part of Phase Four...nor the main MCU storyline. MrWii000 (talk) 19:01, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Do you have a sources that confirms it's no longer part of Phase Four? —El Millo (talk) 19:03, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
This picture right here, released at the recent San Diego Comic Con has removed What If...? from Phase Four. MrWii000 (talk) 19:07, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
That's not enough, there are many reasons it could not be included, mainly that they talked about animated projects the previous day already. We need a reliable source that explicitly and unambiguously confirms What If...? is no longer a part of Phase Four or any other Phase. —El Millo (talk) 19:10, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
I agree, just because they had separate Comic-Con panels does not necessarily mean that they are separate. I just checked on Disney+ and the show is still listed there in the Phase Four category. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Splitting to season articles

When do we want to do this, if at all? Given the whole first episode of season 2 was screened at SDCC, and knowing the Gamora episode that was planned for season 1 is also in season 2, it more than passes WP:NTV to have season articles. Thought we might not necessarily need them yet. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:56, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't think we are far off, especially with the third season coming down the pipeline as well. I think it would be good to make the split before we start thinking about being ready for GAs (which I'm hoping won't be too far off for the early Phase Four projects). - adamstom97 (talk) 21:59, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be wiser to wait until season 2 has aired before nominating this for GA status? InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:14, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
Season 2 will probably air by the time it's time to think about the series and its episodes for GA noms anyway if we mostly go by release order of the movies and series -- Zoo (talk) 01:49, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
Well, there isn't technically a rule that we have to go in order of release date. But I do think we should hold off on nominating Loki and What If...? before their second seasons air. InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:02, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
I wasn't suggesting that we nominate this article for GA, I agree that we should hold off on that. I was thinking the first season article and the episode articles (same for Loki) in the near future. - adamstom97 (talk) 06:54, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
No yeah, we shouldn't be nominating this article after splits are made, or Loki at this time. It would just be the respective season 1 articles for both, plus episode articles from the first season. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:11, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
I think at the very least the season 1 draft is ready to be moved. Season 2 I feel could move too, but I don't know how season articles are handled with animation vs live action series. I know Loki's seasons were moved when season 2 began filming. -- Zoo (talk) 19:10, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
The equivalent for animation would be proof that actual animation work had begun, which we do have for S2 since an entire episode has already been shown. The question isn't are the season articles ready, it's whether this article should be split or not. Currently it is at the "Length alone does not justify division" stage per WP:SIZERULE, so we would need a good reason to go ahead with the split now. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:05, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
Right. We can split, but I don't know if we should split yet. I think as we get closer to season 2's release, or it actually releasing, it will be in a better spot to justify the split. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:22, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
Ah, yes. I forgot about the size rule. So I do agree with waiting until closer to season 2 releasing. -- Zoo (talk) 23:14, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
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