Talk:Westlake station (Sound Transit)/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Kew Gardens 613 (talk · contribs) 14:33, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Lead The sentence "Westlake is a light rail and bus station located that is part of the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel in Seattle, Washington." doesn't sound right. Perhaps it should read "Westlake is a light rail and bus station located in part of the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel in Seattle, Washington." Done. Washington in the lead and in the infobox should be wikilinked. Per MOS:OLINK, linking to "Washington" when a city within the state is also linked is unnecessary. I wasn't aware of this. I have seen this linked in many other articles. Thanks. Background and earlier proposals The failure of the Forward Thrust ballot measures led to the creation of Metro Transit in 1972, operating bus service across King County and taking over planning for a regional rapid transit system. This should read "The failure of the Forward Thrust ballot measures led to the creation of Metro Transit in 1972, which operates bus service across King County and has planned for a regional rapid transit system." Tweaked this a little to emphasize that the new Metro was created with the intention of also creating a rapid transit system (at the time). Bus tunnel "The Pine Street segment of the tunnel, running from 4th Avenue to 9th Avenue, would be dug cut-and-cover, requiring a long-term closure of the street." This should read "would be constructed using cut-and-cover." Cut-and-cover works fine on its own. I have gone ahead and re-ordered the sentence to remove all the commas. Does SCI stand for something? I don't know what it stands for, but I don't think it would be essential information. "Westlake station, along with Pioneer Square station, was at the center of a controversy during its construction due to the use of granite from South Africa, then under a Metro boycott against Apartheid rule. After the granite's origins were discovered, the materials were returned and Metro's executive director resigned as a result of the incident." Was it necessary for Metro to redo any work at the station as a result? I asked Metro and some transit historians, but couldn't get much of an answer when researching the topic. The granite was not installed in any stations, but replacements were found and purchased. That is fine. "Metro also had to return shipments of terra cotta tiles that were delivered warped, in the wrong size, and in the wrong color; the planned terra cotta ceiling for the station was instead replaced with a travertine limestone. During construction in early 1989, approximately 20 workers were sickened by fumes and foul air inside the station. Air quality tests conducted in the tunnel could not identify the cause of the bad air, leading Metro to install scrubbers to help control diesel exhaust from equipment." What was the additional cost, and how did affect the public's perception of the project? The newspaper articles don't mention a cost, but it may have contributed to the whole project going overbudget. Nothing concrete enough to cite. Fair enough. Light rail Should "regional transit authority" be capitalized? It's being used here as a generic term, rather than the name of the agency (which was a bit longer). Okay. The downtown transit tunnel closed on September 23, 2005, for a two-year, $82.7 million renovation to accommodate light rail vehicles. The comma is unnecessary. Moved the "two-year" clause to the next sentence. You didn't mention what happened to the bus routes during this time period. Were they rerouted above ground? It's covered in the tunnel article, which should be sufficient. "As part of the renovation, a short cut-and-cover "stub tunnel" was built under Pine Street between Westlake station and Interstate 5 to form the turnback area for trains and part of a future northern extension of the light rail system." It should read "to form the turnback area for trains and to allow for a future northern extension of the light rail system." Changed the tense and the wording of the end. Future "The downtown transit tunnel is expected to lose bus service in 2019, due to construction at Convention Place station; the tunnel would become served exclusively by light rail trains, which will increase in frequency for the opening of the Northgate Link Extension." It isn't clear what will happen to the buses. Will a new tunnel be built, will they be cut back? This should read "The downtown transit tunnel is expected to lose bus service in 2019 due to the construction at the Convention Place station. The tunnel will be exclusively served by light rail trains, which need the additional capacity in anticipation of the Northgate Link Extension." Mentioned that buses are moving back to street level, but not the capacity (which isn't really the point of the project). The link services template on the bottom of the page lists this as a future Blue Line station. This should be mentioned. The final operating plan isn't quite known at this time, with the promise of Blue Line service only given, so I would rather not add it to the prose. The template was done by another user. Station layout What does "open during limited weekdays" mean? Changed to mention that it is only open a few business days per month (and updated the ref URL). Where do the entrances to the department stores lead to on the suface? Are these closed when the department stores are closed? The layouts of the stores vary, but they all have basement levels that are connected to the ground floor. When the stores are closed, the entrances are locked, but the non-retail entrances are open. The article does not make clear whether payment is paid through turnstiles or by proof-of-payment. A small mention would be nice. Proof-of-payment is mentioned at the Central Link article. None of the stations have turnstiles, so it is left to the system article. Services Do you know why there is no Bay B? It isn't significant, but this is something that might interest the reader. I do not have a reliable source for this, but the bay was eliminated in a previous service change that consolidated some of the tunnel bays. "Bay A is served by three routes (routes 41, 74 and 255) heading north toward Northgate and the University District and east towards Kirkland; Bay C is served by three routes (routes 101, 102 and 150) heading south through the SODO Busway toward Kent and Renton; and Bay D is served by one route (Sound Transit Express route 550) heading east via Interstate 90 to Bellevue." Where are these placed in the station? Where is Bay C located relative to Bay D, and where are they located relatie to where the light rail stops? Mentioned which platform has which bays. Because Westlake runs east–west while the tunnel is signed north–south, the southbound platform is on the north side (facing west) and the northbound platform is on the south side (facing east). Thanks. Are free transfers available to these bus routes and the streetcar? Yes, through the ORCA card. Tickets aren't transferable.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Lead The lead should mention that in the future this station will only be used by light rail. Done.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Source 85 [1] isn't working. All of the other online sources are in order. Replaced with an archived link.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Most sources are from newspapers, such as the Seattle Times, or are from documents from the relevant agencies, such as King County Metro.
	2c. it contains no original research.	There are many sources from The Seattle Times which aren't linked. I believe you, but is there any way for me to access them, or to verify that these articles exist? Thanks. The articles are accessed via an online newspaper archive provided by the public library. There is a download limit, so it would take months to send over the articles. Okay. I trust you, as have other GA reviewers. You always have done high quality work.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Nothing shows up using Earwig's Copyvio Detector.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	It addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	I think that the article is very comprehensive, but loses its focus in a few places. For instance in the light rail section the article reads "The northern extension opened on March 19, 2016, moving the line's northern terminus to University of Washington station." I understand why the sentence before is in the article, as this was the previous terminus, but the following sentence does not directly involve this station. I don't know how this expands one's knowledge of the station. "Westlake is the 13th northbound station from Angle Lake station, the line's southern terminus, and second southbound station from University of Washington station, the northern terminus." The same goes for "The station is approximately 38 minutes from SeaTac/Airport station and six minutes from University of Washington station." You haven't responded to this yet. I must have missed this, since it's quite isolated. Inclusion of the station's location (as a prose version of the Services box in the infobox) and distance in minutes from termini or major destinations is pretty standard practice for simple rail systems. It's useful for readers, giving them an idea of where the station is on the line (rather than using street addresses) and also giving rough travel time estimates. I didn't know that that was the practice for simple systems. I am used to working on the NYC Subway when this is never done. I will pass it once I hear a response to this point. What will be done once the system is expanded?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 23:59, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply] @Kew Gardens 613: When new lines are added, I think that the article can accommodate the additional figures. An example: PATH Plainfield extension"Westlake is the ninth southbound station from Lynnwood City Center, the 16th northbound station on the Red Line from Federal Way, and the 18th westbound station on the Blue Line from Redmond Technology Center." "The station is approximately 38 minutes from SeaTac/Airport station, 28 minutes from Lynnwood, and 20 minutes from Downtown Bellevue." Sounder Bruce 00:08, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply] Fair enough
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	I see no biased wording in here.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	Other than one edit that was removed from sight for some reason, I see no issues with the edit history. That edit was wiped because it contained a harmful attack of some sort, IIRC.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	Things look like they are in order but it isn't clear where the author of File:Seattle - Westlake transit station 04.jpg and File:Seattle - Westlake transit station 01A.jpg gave permission for it to be up. Both images are licensed as CC-BY-SA by its author, who contributes them to Commons himself. They're definitely permitted uses. Okay.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	The captions fit the images well. However, this image File:Link Light Rail at Westlake Station (10873527453).jpg is a little blurry as the train is still moving. Either File:Link light rail train loading at Westlake (2010).jpg or File:Airport-bound Link train at Westlake Station (2010).jpg should work. I would prefer to use the "blurry" image, as it shows the platform with better lighting and conveys movement, which is kind of important to transportation. Okay then.
	7. Overall assessment.

Comments

Hello SounderBruce (talk · contribs), thanks for your work on this article. I hope to have comments for you shortly. --Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 14:33, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think that I am almost done looking through the article. It is really good and it gives a great overview of all aspects of the station. I have seen some of the other Sound Transit articles you have done, and you really put a lot of effort into your work. I look forward to hearing your response. I was not sure which section to put this in so I will mention it here. In the infobox it says that it opened in September 1990. This should be clarified for buses. Also, the 2009 date for light rail should be added. Also, are there any ridership numbers for the bus routes here?Thanks.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 16:16, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am done reviewing it. I have put this on hold and I await your response. Thanks for nominating this article. This is my first Good Article Review. I have submitted many articles, but I have never reviewed one. I have tried to be as comprehensive as possible. If I have done a poor job please tell me so that I can improve. Thanks and Happy New Year.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 16:29, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Kew Gardens 613: Thanks for the review. There were a few points where I disagreed, but seeing as you're fairly new to reviewing I hope you're not discouraged. It was a good review and I'm glad to have been the recipient.

As for the infobox dates, I would prefer not to clutter the infobox with more detail. The station didn't suddenly close/open before light rail service began in 2009, and typically the arrival of a new service doesn't warrant inclusion as a key date in infoboxes. Ridership data for Metro buses are broken down by route, but not by stop/station, so it would be hard to procure and cite. Sounder Bruce 02:02, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@SounderBruce:Thanks for your work on fixing some minor things, and thanks for explaining why certain things are justified. There is just one more thing. You didn't address focus yet.

@Kew Gardens 613: Responded to that last comment. I don't feel as if changes are needed, though. Sounder Bruce 20:17, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@SounderBruce: Thank you for spending the time to fix the few issues there were. This is a really great article. I am really impressed about your body of work in Seattle. I look forward to reading more of and maybe reviewing more of your articles.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 00:57, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.