Talk:Welsh Church of Central London

A fact from Welsh Church of Central London appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 9 May 2016 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that David Lloyd George regularly attended the Welsh Church of Central London (pictured) and his daughter was married there?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2016/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Welsh Church of Central London.

Wikipedia

Christianity: Baptist Low‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Baptist work group.

Wales Low‑importance

	Wales portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

London Low‑importance

	London portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article was created or improved during the "The 20,000 Challenge: UK and Ireland", which started on 20 August 2016 and is still open. You can help!

"Welsh Church of Central London"

In this comment I should like to make a suggestion for reorganising this article - but before carrying out any redrafting, I should like to ask for the views of others interested in the article.

Very broadly, it seems to me that the article deals with three main topics - (1) the building at 30 Eastcastle Street, London; (2) the (Welsh Baptist) congregation which worshipped in the building from 1888 up to 2006; (3) the present congregation (known as the 'Welsh Church of Central London', 'Eglwys Gymraeg Canol Llundain') which has worshipped in the building since 2006.

Under (1) - the history of the building, its architecture, listing status (Grade II), fixtures such as the organ.

Under (2) - the history of the Baptist congregation which built the Eastcastle Street church. For context - the 19thC and 20thC London Welsh communities. The key pastors. The Lloyd George family. Also the theological / doctrinal position of this Baptist congregation (adult baptism, the Baptist associations which the congregation joined).

Under (3) - the 2006 decision - when three London Welsh Nonconformist congregations decided to unite in worship on this site. The three were the Eastcastle Street Baptist congregation and two Welsh Independent congregations - Tabernacle (King's Cross) and Radnor Walk (Chelsea). This was a pioneering ecumenical step. (Either under (3) or in a section (4) - a description of the current worship and activities - the inclusive nature of the congregation - both Welsh and English are used in its services.)

Historically Welsh Baptist churches and Welsh Independent / Congregationalist churches had substantial similarities. Both focused on the independent congregation - there was no overarching Presbyterian organisation of disciplie or doctrine - the associations were associations of independent churches. The most substantial difference centred on baptism - while the Independent congregations baptised infants, the Baptist congregations baptised adults. The difference could, especially in the case of Particular Baptist churches, lead to practical issues.

The reason why I think one needs to be careful to separate out these topics is that the description 'Baptist' is completely appropriate for (1) and (2) - but only partly appropriate for (3). For (1) - the building itself has the word 'Bedyddwyr' (Baptists) on its facade. For (2) - the congregation up to 2006 was certainly a Baptist congregation. But on (3) - the official website of the 'Welsh Church of Central London' / 'Eglwys Gymraeg Canol Llundain' shows that the current congregation does not describe itself as exclusively Baptist. In fact that would miss the point of the 2006 decision - which was an ecumenical decision to worship together.

In one sense there are still three congregations - one Baptist, two Independent - worshipping together. It follows that Infant baptism would remain an option for parents from the independent tradition ; and Adult baptism would remain an option for those from the Baptist tradition. There is obviously a limit to what a Wikipedia article can say here - the Wikipedia article must have a grounding in secondary sources, and this is not the place to engage in speculation. In essence the Wikipedia article should track the public statements of the united congregation.

If the general reorganisation should meet with agreement, I think it would be sensible to discuss any proposed redraft with the current Minister and officers, to ensure accuracy.

I should add that I have worshipped with the united congregation, as a guest. Gwedi elwch (talk) 05:58, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Gwedi elwch: If you think it would be an improvement, be WP:BOLD and make the changes. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 06:55, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]