Talk:Ward (LDS Church)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ward (LDS Church) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Latter Day Saint movement Mid‑importance

	Latter Day Saint movement portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Latter Day Saint movement, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Mormonism and the Latter Day Saint movement on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Latter Day Saint movementWikipedia:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movementTemplate:WikiProject Latter Day Saint movementLatter Day Saint movement articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 15 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): DKParker.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Branches in jail/prison/halfway house

I added this information because in my stake, we have a branch organized in a halfway house. It used to be part of the YSA ward in our stake until it was organized as a branch. I know that the branch presidency is called from members of our stake, and I think that they are the only positions of authority in the branch. I'm assuming that the branch presidency also teaches the classes.

Also, my brother is one of the teachers in a county jail (in another county). I don't think that they have a branch there, but I haven't asked him what the organization is. If no one has any information on branches being organized in jails/prisons, then that information should be removed. But information on teaching that goes on in such places should be included somewhere in this article. Val42 02:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, on my mission I was assigned to a military base branch (an active base where no one was allowed on unless they lived on the base, or were "clergy," which meant us.) I've also been assigned to speak in convalescent home branches and special ed home branches, and have known people who serve in some capacity in prison branches.--Mrcolj 02:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguity question

"For the term used for congregations in other Latter Day Saint denominations, see Branch (Latter Day Saints)." I wish that could be rephrased, because there are those (and I'm generally not one of them) who argue that Latter-day Saints are a Latter Day Saint denomination. Isn't that how they argue? :) But it actually did confuse me for a moment, for exactly that reason.. --Mrcolj 02:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ward as geographical boundary

Maybe it's just cultural, but I have always been taught that "ward" is exclusively a geographical term, and that to use it to mean "congregation" is always grammatically and stylistically incorrect. I think the powers that be are very specific to say "members in your ward" or "non-members in your ward," because "ward" does not solely refer to the members, by definition. I dunno, can someone source it?--Mrcolj 02:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a good point. I think that we will need a citation for this. However, I've heard of the phrases "ward boundary" or "ward boundaries" used to refer to the geographic boundary. This comes down to the same problem that we had in defining what LDS cinema contains: do we make a definition based on usage or insist on finding a definition that someone else has found. We decided (de facto not by fiat) to define by usage. What do you think we should do here? Val42 18:53, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In the LDS church "Ward" is a geographical term as well as a congregation --Trödel 22:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But can we find a reference for this? Val42 19:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good question, I know Packer has said this - in reference to being opposed to overlaid foreign language wards that are subject to a different Bishop. But it may only be in Stake Conferences, which, although confirmed by myself and 2 others at priesthood leadership sessions of different stake conference, probably don't meet WP:RS --Trödel 02:02, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Women on Church councils

When the Church announced that female members of the auxiliary presidencies would serve on major Church councils, the statement was made that these changes would soon trickle down to the stake, district, ward and branch level. Is anyone aware of whether that's happened or not? I just wanted to get some idea of the answer to this question. Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:31, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Don't women already serve on stake/district/ward/branch councils? My understand was that Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary presidents were already on the local councils. Or was the idea that the "Priesthood Executive Council" would be discontinued or women added to it? Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:05, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I know they serve on the Ward Council. But with women invited to serve as members of general church councils, it was my understanding that there were some ward councils on which women did not previously serve as members, but now do. I imagine the Priesthood Executive Council, for instance, has now been renamed the Priesthood and Family Council. Is that not correct? I don't know quite how that works, because I've never been a member of the PEC. Can anyone shed further light on this point? --Jgstokes (talk) 23:11, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, PEC has not been renamed and opened up this way church-wide. It maybe has been phased in in some areas of the church, I'm not sure. There's nothing in either of the major Utah newspapers reporting such a change, and they are pretty good at reporting such things. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:37, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

PEC has not been re-named. On a typical Sunday morning, either the ward council or the PEC will meet. Everyplace I have been the meetings alternate but there is no doctrinal requirement to do so. The ward councils have included sisters for at least 30 years (as far back as I know). There is also a stake council, which includes sisters leading the relief society, YW and primary organizations. I don't know above that. What has changed is that bishops have been encouraged to involve the sisters more in decisions regarding the ward, many of which were decided in bishopric meetings, which occur separately from PEC and ward council. CsikosLo (talk) 14:09, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Then why does it state in this article that these changes will affect the women's role in local Church councils? It's as good as the Church saying that it does apply locally. Just sayin'. --Jgstokes (talk) 03:58, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see that stated by the church in this article. I can see this: "[Mary] Cook also noted that the news could affect local priesthood councils in LDS congregations. 'I think this is a powerful way to instruct local leaders about how to more effectively integrate the perspective of women to strengthen their local wards and stakes.'" That sounds like an individual (former) leader speculating or suggesting that future changes could occur locally and be inspired by the general changes, not a statement by the church that the changes are being rolled out or implemented locally. I wouldn't be surprised if it was changed, but I don't know of any evidence that it has been. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 05:10, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I know I'm late getting to this, but my only comment is that when I served in a bishopric in Louisiana in 2013, the Relief Society President would many times attend our PEC. It was already allowed by invitation, and we welcomed her presence since she provided greater insight in some areas in how to individually assist the members in our ward. Consequently, it didn't seem like a change when it was announced. Ward councils, of course, already included female leaders (RS, Primary, YW, YSA).-Dmm1169 (talk) 16:02, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dmm1169, unless I am mistaken, it is Wikipedia policy to put new comments at the bottom of a thread on the talk page, so I hope you don't mind that I moved your comment. This will make this section a bit cleaner. For you, and for anyone else who may be interested, I have found newer, more up-to-date information on this matter: As part of the massive update to the Church Handbook (which is now available to all Church members and has been reduced from two volumes to one) in Chapter 6, sections 6.2.2 and 6.2.3, it says that the ward PEC has officially been discontinued in favor of a "ward council" that does include key female leaders in each congregation. See that section here for confirmation. This supercedes any previous sources and should be noted in the article somehow. But I will leave it to others more knowledgeable than I am to make any needed adjustments in this article as a result of the new information. --Jgstokes (talk) 18:36, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move and cover Stakes here too?

Could coverage of Stakes (and stake houses, their administrative offices) be added to this article? It seems natural to explain the next higher level of organization, too, in addition to the Wards and the branches. Stake house (currently a redlink) needs to be an article or a redirect to one covering the concept. Note there exists List of stakes of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I suggest moving this article so the title reflects this, perhaps retitling to Stakes, wards, and branches (LDS church), although that could be improved upon. --do ncr am 22:23, 17 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Stakes are already covered at Stake (Latter Day Saints). If anything changes, in my opinion it should be to make a separate article for Stake (LDS Church) since the LDS usage of "stake" is by far the most widely used of the Latter Day Saint movement (which is true about any terminology used by the LDS Church that other Latter Day Saint movement groups share) and the section on LDS stakes is the largest in that article. There is also an article for Districts (LDS Church) and the LDS usage of a "meeting house" is mentioned at meeting house. As for "stake house", is there any source to usage of that term? Since it's too close to "steakhouse" I think that's why "stake center" is used (and explained in Stake (Latter Day Saints)#Stake center). --JonRidinger (talk) 00:05, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your quick response! I obviously failed to find that Stake (Latter Day Saints) article. Where I am coming from is trying to develop articles about historic sites:

Christian and Sarah Knudsen House's NRHP nomination document: "Christian and Sarah Knudsen also donated large sums to build the Provo, Alpine and Lehi LDS stake houses."
Woodruff Stake House's NRHP nomination document (pages 8-9): "The decision to construct the stake house was made by leaders of the LDS Woodruff Stake (a stake is comprised of several wards or congregations) on March 10, 1900, and work commenced on March 17. Church headquarters contributed $400 toward the cost of the building, and the balance was covered by the Woodruff Ward and wards from other towns in the stake. A local history of the town notes that the building contained "a clerk's office, a High Council Chamber [apparently the center room on the main floor], a Bishops Office and also a room upstairs for a prayer circle."6 The "clerk" referred to was the stake clerk, who kept track of stake affairs under the direction of the stake president. In February 1901, a local correspondent to the statewide Deseret Evening News noted that "[W]e have a fine Stake house office, with five rooms nearly completed. It was built by contributions from each settlement, and is a credit to the people of this Stake."7
And footnote: " This is the name the building has been known by locally throughout its history, though in current LDS Church terminology "stake house" refers to a meetinghouse that houses not only ward (congregation) functions, but also the offices of the stake presidency (a stake is comprised of several wards)."

It sounds to me like a "stake house" is a real thing, and there could be a number of notable examples. Like there are notable tithing offices (currently a redlink), as covered by this NRHP "MPS" document and including Pleasant Grove Tithing Office and Farmington Tithing Office (and Woodruff Stake House which did double duty). Although Tithe (Latter Day Saints) doesn't mention "tithing office".

Warning: Any distinction between Latter Day Saint vs LDS is beyond me. :) --do ncr am 00:46, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Stake house" is an older term, and was replaced by "stake center/centre" sometime in the 1970s, I think. There is no difference between a current stake center and and old stake house. As Jon says above, many Latter Day Saint groups use "stake", but only the LDS Church and Mormon fundamentalists use "ward"; also, "stake" comes from scripture, but "ward" does not. So it probably makes some sense to keep the articles separate. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:49, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would be happy if Stake house (currently a redlink) would turn blue, by someone making it a redirect to Stake_(Latter Day Saints)#Stake center. It would be great if that 5-sentence small paragraph could be expanded to mention that stake house was the former term, and the other good bits you both share: that differentiating vs. "steakhouse" was an issue, that term changed in 1970s or whatever, that "stake" comes from scripture. I hesitate to make the redirect myself if there's not explanation there, and I am not up to explaining this. Thanks! --do ncr am 00:59, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I created the redirect. It would seem from reading the nomination forms that a "stake house" was more the administrative building for a stake (offices, high council room, prayer circle room), while stake conference was held at the local stake tabernacle, which are/were typically just large assembly buildings. In that sense, a "stake center" appears to be a modern creation combining them. While "stake" isn't unique to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the terms like "stake center" and "stake house" are, which would be an argument for splitting a separate article off the main Stake (Latter Day Saints) one.

As for "Latter Day Saint", that's the general term for Latter Day Saint movement (which is what I prefer to use to avoid ambiguity). "Latter-day Saint" specifically refers to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), by far the largest of the Latter Day Saint movement groups. When someone refers to something being "LDS" it is usually referring to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, not the Latter Day Saint movement as a whole. --JonRidinger (talk) 17:56, 19 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree basically with what JonRidinger has written above, though the distinction between a stake tabernacle versus a stake house is one that only existed in areas of heavy Mormon concentration in the western U.S., since those were the only places stake tabernacles existed. There were quite a few stakes outside of this area that also had "stake houses", and they were just single buildings that were basically the same as the modern "stake center"—a combination building for both assemblies and offices. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:59, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the articles should remain separate. There are reasons they have been separated up until now, and all those reasons also spell out my myriad objections to combining them. I couldn't say it better than it has already been said, so I'm not even going to try. Keep them separate. That's MHO. --Jgstokes (talk) 03:20, 20 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

LDS Groups that are not wards and branches

What's not mentioned is groups that may be part of a ward/branch/area but meets separately and acts as a separate congregation. For example servicemen's groups exist in deployed areas and on navy ships. There are member groups for foreign members (foreign to the country of location) in countries that does not recognize the church. There are groups that are part of a ward or branch such as in my stake in eastern Arkansas where a group of members in the Lonoke Branch are given authorization meet in Brinkley, distant from the branch building - having rented space to meet. -Dmm1169 (talk) 15:10, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in addition to distant location groups, there are groups in wards, like within the Paragould Branch in my stake where a group within a branch has its own sacrament meeting and adult Sunday school for those that speak Marshallese. It's part of the Paragould branch, but Sacrament and adult Sunday school are separate, with their own room to meet in for those services. -Dmm1169 (talk) 15:22, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]