Talk:List of independence wars

Earlier discussion

An alternate name for the American Revolutionary War.

Hang on, don't some other countries also have a 'War of Independence'? e.g. Israel? If you said American War of Independence, okay; but to call it the War of Independence is just U.S.-centric -- SJK

Seconded. And if there were only one sense of the term (there's not), this would be better as a #REDIRECT. Perhaps we should use this one as a disambiguating page. Koyaanis Qatsi, Friday, April 5, 2002

Agreed. --maveric149, Friday, April 5, 2002

The definition (to which I agree) does not seem to span all the wars subsequently named, especially Turkey and Israel seem to lack a definite former overruling country. But, this pages of course serves also as a disambiguation page, and thus this is a not easily solved problem. Renke 00:51, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Why is the American Civil War not in the list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.231.32.216 (talk) 22:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Spanish War of Independence

I've added a link to The Spanish War of Indepencence (as it is known in Spain) or Peninsular War --Loren 00:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Boer Wars

I have removed the references to the two Boer Wars. While I recognize that the conflicts are referred to as a war of independence among many Afrikaners, the conflicts do not meet the criteria at the top of the article which states: "If a new state is successfully established, the conflict is subsequently known as a war of independence." At the end of the Boer conflicts, two independent republics were vanquished. I would not object to restoring the Boer wars to this list, but first the criteria ought to be amended. Skeezix1000 14:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

relationship to article on wars of national liberation

A merge with Wars of national liberation should be considered. The two articles mostly list the same wars; the definitions of the two types of wars broadly overlap. The situation is complicated slightly by the fact that "War of Independence" is a proper name, and this page acts as a disambiguation page for that name, whereas "war of national liberation" is a concept that has an article explaining it. That the two articles have evolved largely without knowledge of each other is suggested by the fact that they didn't contain "See also" links to each other (which I've added) and that the German article for de:Unabhängigkeitskrieg was cross-linked to Wars of national liberation, despite the German word being an exact translation of War of Independence. So, I'm not sure what the best solution is, I just wanted to point out the existence of the two largely parallel articles. Joriki 09:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. It could be considered, in particular seeing that this article is rather a List of wars of independence than something else. However, the term clearly design different realities, as wars of independence were waged before the 20th century, while national liberation wars usually refers to decolonization. While you could certainly argue, with much legitimacy, that all wars of independence were part of Decolonization, this period usually refers to post-WWII. All in all, the conceptual difference is very slight, not to say non-existent; it is more a question about popular habit of naming "wars of national liberation" "colonial wars" (which, in this case, I also propose to merge; see Talk:Wars of national liberation#Merge). We could furthermore argue that "national liberation" refers to the nation, and therefore to nationalism, a 19th & 20th century phenomenon (at least if you endorse Benedict Anderson & others historians' thesis). While "independence" only refers to a state, not necessarily to a nation. As you see, you could say this is bickering. I don't think it is, but I don't think either that this debate is very important for Wikipedia, at least in the present, so, for practical purposes, I will endorse your proposal if you're keen on it. But I think it is first more important to merge together colonial wars and wars of national liberation. Tazmaniacs 19:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

This article should not be a list of wars of independece but a list of wars called "xxx War of Independence" in English and not like the Boer wars in Afrikaners or the Peninsular War in Spanish --PBS 19:36, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

China

I've just removed two Chinese links Xinhai revolution and War of Liberation of the People's Republic of China as these are a revolution and a civil war respectively. Although it did return control of China to the Han Chinese people, I don't think Xinhai revolution should be considered a war of independence as China and Manchuria remained a single country afterwards.Kiore (talk) 06:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

ok, Xinhai revolution may be just a civil war or revolution. But War of Liberation of the People's Republic of China is both a civil war and a war of independence. The result of that war is that the People's Republic of China is independent from the Republic of China. They are de-facto two countries under different and independent law systems. --SH9002 (talk) 03:52, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Croatian war of independence

The croatian war does not completly stand still with the definition provided in the introduction. I quote "Once the state that previously held the territory sends in military forces to assert its sovereignty". In case of Croatian war, Croatia was attacked by serbian forces (not by the state that previoisly held the teritory) and by Yugoslav peoples army that was no longer under influence of federal organs but exclusively by serbian aggressors. According to Yugoslav constitution, Croatia was a republic within Yugoslav federation and after Slovenia and Croatia declared independence and were internationaly recognised, the old Yugoslavia stopped existing. Therefore, Croatia was not attacked by the state that previously held the territory (old Yugoslavia) but by other republic, Serbia.

According to described, it was not a war of independence, but a defensive war, even though the expression "Croatian war of independence" is widely used.85.178.145.174 (talk) 21:08, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Should this remain a disambiguation page?

This article has been a disambiguation page since April 2002. In February 2006, the List_of_wars_of_independence_(national_liberation) article was created, yet the "War_of_independence" article continued to function as a list. I feel that being a disambiguation page and a list prevents people from taking this article seriously. I believe that this discourages users from expanding the article with non-disambiguation information. I believe that we should remove the list and add a link to List_of_wars_of_independence_(national_liberation) in the "See also" section. Once this is done, this article will cease to be a disambiguation page, and hopefully, it'll see more expansion. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 14:12, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I think it should stay a disambiguation page, but it has to be purged.

1. The lede can be replace by a hatnote pointing to List of wars of independence (national liberation) and a proper heading for a dp.
2. Red Turban Rebellion can be removed
3. Kosovo War should be reviewed before removing/keeping.
4. Bosnian War should be reviewed before removing/keeping.
5. First Indochina War should be reviewed if it merits keeping it into the list
6. Vietnam War should be removed. (North Vietnam was already an independent state, effectively they have conquered South Vietnam)
7. Sino-Vietnamese War should be removed
8. Philippine–American War should be removed. (First Phillipine Republic effectively conquered by the USA and therefore lost its independence)
9. Mau Mau Uprising should be removed

Night of the Big Wind _talk 21:29, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't believe that the Philippine–American War and some others you've mentioned should be removed. Failed wars of independence are still a wars of independence nonetheless. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 21:50, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

We can always talk about my suggestions. Lets start with the Sino-Vietnamese War. To me, that looks more like an invasion that a war of independence... Night of the Big Wind _talk 00:22, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Can I remind folks of the purpose of a disambiguation page - to help readers decide which of the articles with a similar name is the one they want. If the article is to remain a disambiguation page, it should be edited back to only those wars called "War of Independence". If, however, all wars with the theme of independence of a group from an overlord is the purpose, consider a list article format. It also needs a far better definition in the lede and would gain from some consideration of political theory e.g. nationhood, colonialism. To recap, work out what the article is for and redesign it accordingly. Best of luck Monstrelet (talk) 15:25, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I tend to agree. It seems to me that its nothng more now thenh a way of having the name war of indepedandance via the back door. This is a Disambig and so should only include wars that are called wars of independacne.Slatersteven (talk) 15:35, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Right now, this is more of a WP:SETINDEX, should change {{disambig}} to {{SIA}} . 76.65.128.132 (talk) 21:32, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Please clarify...

What is the sentence "War of independence were followed by the decolonization period Wars of national liberation." trying to say? I'm assuming that "War of independence" should actually be pluralized as "Wars of independence". Is this trying to say that "In the decolonization period such wars were often referred to as Wars of national liberation"? Is there really any difference between the two terms? --Khajidha (talk) 17:37, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Turkish War of Independence

Should we delete the TWoI from the list as it was a already an independent country and preventing independence was not the aim of opposing forces, thus it cannot be considered as a "independence war" as stated in the relevant article? @SilentResident: @Buidhe:--V. E. (talk) 21:28, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Visnelma, This article is tagged as a "set index" meaning it lists articles with "war of independence" in the name. Therefore, I think it should stay on this list, with the details explained at the article itself. (t · c) buidhe 21:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

@Visnelma:, I think it is still an "War of Independence" technically, including liberating certain areas where Turkish subjects lived, and establishing the Republic of Turkey:

The occupation of Istanbul (1918) and İzmir (1919) by the Allies in the aftermath of World War I prompted the establishment of the Turkish National Movement. Under the leadership of Mustafa Kemal Pasha, a military commander who had distinguished himself during the Battle of Gallipoli, the Turkish War of Independence (1919–1923) was waged with the aim of revoking the terms of the Treaty of Sèvres (1920).

The Treaty of Lausanne of 24 July 1923, which superseded the Treaty of Sèvres, led to the international recognition of the sovereignty of the newly formed "Republic of Turkey" as the successor state of the Ottoman Empire, and the republic was officially proclaimed on 29 October 1923 in Ankara, the country's new capital. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 21:55, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

A note: Although it is technically called as such, what has made me skeptical about certain aspects of the TWoI is when I had recently read about Misak-ı Millî. It is the equivalent of a "Greater Turkey" in English. (Recently, a redirect was created: Greater Turkey which leads to it) Perhaps some more input will be appreciated about the TWoI and its relation to the Misak-ı Millî? Since the TWoI is a sensitive topic, we will have to be careful as to reflect on sources while at same time making sure that the bias in them is properly identified. Thanks. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 20:47, 18 October 2021 (UTC)