Talk:Wall of Jericho (Neolithic)

Deleted external links

External link or links have recently been deleted by User:Calton as "horrible Tripod pages which add little information, are full of ads, and fail WP:EL standards." No better external links were substituted. Readers may like to judge these deleted links for themselves, by opening Page history. --Wetman 15:08, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

"Despite the existence of the wall and tower, Jericho is still a proto-city." A sentence like this is merely a function of its definition; without specifying the definition of "proto-city" that is envisaged by the writer, which the reader is entitled to share or dismiss, the sentence is babble. --Wetman 09:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Translation of rams' horns

The word used in the Hebrew is "shofar", I didn't make the hyperlink because that would be original research. Down the road someone could find an authoritative hebrew reader.108.65.0.169 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:29, 9 October 2011 (UTC).

Where is this wall located?

Where is this wall (or its ruins) located? The article should mention that. --damiens.rf 16:08, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Explanation of edits

This is just to explain in more detail why I edited the section, "Influence on Literature".

The previous title of the section was a misnomer and possibly had POV problems. Some may be put off by the application of the term "literature" to the Bible, and such people would say that the Bible is history. I would have left it, but it is really not needed as the only literature covered in the section is the Bible. "Biblical Account" is much more objective, because the section covers only the account of the destruction of the wall as described in the Bible, and not other literature.

There was some overlinking going on in regards to "Israelites".

I added some new text and new links to pertinent information. Tried to do so objectively, linking biblical Canaan to the specific section of the Canaan page covering its appearance in the Hebrew Bible, among other things.

I also fixed some seemingly awkward wording describing the Battle of Jericho.

I gave the section a main article, because the biblical account of the destruction of the wall of Jericho is the biblical Battle of Jericho. --KnowOnesOnions (talk) 05:24, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

EDIT: User Doug Weller edited section title "Biblical Account" to "Book of Joshua", which makes much more sense even just in regards to specificity (Joshua as compared to the whole Bible). "Biblical Account" also has POV problem. This is why it's good to have many eyes on one page, as even if someone strives for objectivity, there can be things that are overlooked. --KnowOnesOnions (talk) 16:05, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Date of PPNA wall, tower

There is a 1500-year discrepancy between the PPNA dates given by specialised archaeologists here, and the dates used by the WP articles on Pre-Pottery Neolithic A, Jericho, the Wall of Jericho and the Tower of Jericho: ≈11,500–10,500 cal B.P. vs. 8000 to 7000 BC. The PNAS article is referring specifically to the PPNA site at Dhra', but Jericho is only a stone throw away, so regional differences can hardly play a part. Or is it connected to calibrated carbon dates vs. what has become common dating standards? Thanks, ArmindenArminden (talk) 19:57, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Concerning the "four stone towers" in the article, I have not seen any evidence to suggest that there were four. I have seen things not explicitly stating that there was only one tower, but implying through language. In "Archaeology In The Holy Land", Kathleen Kenyon states that, "The line of the walls is, however, indicated by a large oblong tower excavated by Professor Garstang, and by a chance cutting made in connection with a military water-point." Kenyon is one of the people most familiar with the site, and if there had been more towers, I believe that she would have said something like, "indicated by large oblong towers" in this passage. I think the "four stone towers" in the article should probably be replaced with "a stone tower". I will go ahead and make this edit now as a separate edit, so if someone wants to revert the edit they can go right ahead. But if there was actually four stone towers, then the evidence should be posted here and we can put it back to four in the article. I just don't like the dubious in there. --KnowOnesOnions (talk) 03:14, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

PPNA wall: Plan? Position on tell?

To be a defensive wall, it needs to encircle the entire town. To block flash floods (from a wadi? any details anywhere?), it only needs to protect it from the western side, the one facing the Judean Mountains (Jabal Quruntul)). For a wadi you need a dam regulating the water flow (blocking it off completely would hardly work) and retaining walls on both banks, while for protecting from runoff from a wide mountainside, a long wall would be necessary - with either "side flaps" to help the water bypass the settlement, or with regulating channels to let it through in a controlled manner. To form an opinion: has the wall been excavated along its entire length, or has its shape at least been reconstructed by "connecting the dots" between excavation ditches? Does anyone have access to such an excavation plan/map? Thanks, ArmindenArminden (talk) 21:41, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

KnowOnesOnions edits

@KnowOnesOnions: Hi KOO! Thank you for your edits. Two reservations though:

• The four (?) Neolithic towers prev. mentioned: do you know where the figure came from? Maybe smb. did a recent GPR research and discovered 3 more foundations? Or maybe Garstang or Kenyon did? That's why I didn't remove it myself (probably not "bold" enough, but still).
• Neolithic walls made of brick: as far as I know, the CITTY WALL is all-stone, no bricks, while the houses were made of bricks. If your sources confirm this, could you please introduce a distinction. It is quite fundamental, also in comparing Bronze Age with Neolithic city walls at Jericho.
  

Actually, since we're at it and you just read up on the topic: it is very relevant re. the wall's purpose if the Neolithic city wall fully surrounded the settlement (were any traces detected on the E side of the tell?), or if it was only found on the W side, which would make it more likely that it "only" served as a dam against flash floods, rather than as a piece of military architecture. Thank you! ArmindenArminden (talk) 10:27, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Concerning the four towers, I have never seen anything on this, just the one. If there were four at any time, and such research was used in writing that, it should have been sourced.

The source I was reading, "Archaeology in the Holy Land" from Kathleen Kenyon said that the Neolithic bricks were made out of mud and hand-molded, while the Bronze Age bricks were made out of mud but molded in square molds. According to that source, there was a foundation of stone and the bricks were not stone.

I will do more research as to the composition of the bricks at different times, and try to find anything on these four towers. --KnowOnesOnions (talk) 18:24, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@KnowOnesOnions: Thanks! And again: houses in Jericho were always made of bricks, nature dictates that, and so were the Bronze-Age city walls from the stone foundations upwards, but the NEOLITHIC "city wall", which is the "Wall of Jericho" in the title of this article, is fully stone-built. If you find smth. on the contrary, then please do put it in; if not, then it's probably a case of slight confusion between the different walls. I have seen 'THE' wall in nature and in numerous photos, it still is quite high, all stone, and I didn't find in my sources anything about it ever having a brick-built crenellation, superstructure, or anything else made of brick. That is my point. There's already far too much confusion in this art. between THE wall of J. (of PPNA age), which is the sole topic of the art., and the many other city walls (younger than PPNA) or house walls (contemp. to the wall or younger) found on the tell, which all slipped into the article and are slowly taking over. All other walls are in no way unique, THE wall is. The Late BA walls only have a larger significance for those searching for the "wall Joshua brought down" from the Old Testament. But that's another topic. Thank you, and see you around :-) ArmindenArminden (talk) 10:41, 28 February 2016 (UTC)