Talk:Waldemar

Germanic before Slavic

Waldemar (Waldomar, Valdemar) is a genuinely Germanic name, both elements being well attested, and the name itself being on record as early as the 680s (in Toledo, so it is presumably a Gothic name in origin). The Bulgarian name, recorded in the 890s, is presumably a Slavic "translation" of the Gothic name, i.e Gothic vald was (correctly) rendered as Slavic vlad, while the Gothic suffix mir was left in place untranslated. The Slavic name somehow made it to Kiev with duke Volodimer. I think it is unclear whether this is an East Slavic translation of the Bulgarian name, or of a Norse Valdamarr. This ties into the whole ""Normanism"/"Anti-Normanism" debate I guess. The Vladimir the Great article claims an Old Norse name Valdamarr Sveinaldsson without any kind of reference or explanation, which I find highly dubious. What is clear, however, is that the name cannot be a genuinely East Slavic name, i.e. it was taken either from Bulgarian or Norse: It was Volodimer, not Volodimir, and the -mer has no Slavic explanation; it was replaced by folk etymological -mir "world" at an early time precisely because it had no Slavic meaning.

Fwiiw, the Old Norse form Valdamarr occur in the Norwegian Heimskringla as the name of a king of Holmgard (i.e. Novgorod). In this instance, the Old Norse name Valdamarr is used as the translation of Vladimir. This has been misunderstood to imply that the name Waldemar itself is a translation from Slavic, which is nonsense. Valdamarr, son of Jarisleifr stands in, in the text of Heimskringla alone, as the Old Norse translation of "Vladimir, son of Yaroslav". --dab (𒁳) 09:25, 3 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be some controversy about the origin of this name. According to some Slavic sources, Vladimir and its variants (Volodymyr, Włodzimierz, ...) is derived from the root vladi- meaning rule and mir meaning peace (or world). This is similar to some other Slavic names like Slavomir meaning glory to peace. Notiice the name of the Russian city Valdivostok meaning ruler of the east Tsf (talk) 15:07, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Germanic before Slavic-the mainstream view? Or just @Dbachmann:'s? Both this article and the one on Vladimir seem to support the opposite view. It's either or, or maybe researchers are undecided. Which one is it? Arminden (talk) 09:20, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Arminden The first historical person to bear the name was Vladimir I the Great, prince of Kiev Rus, who was of Nordic (Swedish Viking) descent. End of discussion. Slavs later made a folk etymology for the name, but the name is Germanic. 62.4.55.104 (talk) 07:32, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not so. The first FAMOUS man with the name was that one, and ethnic origin never equates with being named in a specific way.

Timothy Snyder's course on Ukraine is huge (see Youtube), I can't point out where, but he seemed to say that the Vikings adopted the name from some native locals, not Slavs to be sure. Every ethnic group picks up cultural elements from everywhere and makes them their own.

Guessing and declaring "End of discussion" is useless folk etymology and, with all due respect, silly. Arminden (talk) 10:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are factually incorrect. There was a Vladimir of Bulgaria who preceded Vladimir the Great by over 100 years. Please get your facts straight before you make yousrelf sound like an idiot. SwedishNoodlesToo (talk) 11:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]