Talk:Wait Your Turn

Notable?

This song is currently not notable, per WP:NSONGS. Thus, it has been redirected to the album's article. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:54, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

The AfD notice had been removed, but it's already listed at WP:Articles for deletion/Wait Your Turn (Rihanna Song) due to differing opinions on the topic's notability. Cheers, Amalthea 18:14, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

My bad, I didn't catch the removed AfD. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:43, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

This song has been released as a single. There is the official music video for it on YouTube, and it has started to receive radio play. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.7.78 (talk) 03:22, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

It's not really a single, its more promo single, Wait Your Turn was only release because a) to bring up more hype for "Rated R" b) to show people that Rated R isnt full of "Russian Roulette" (before anybody heard the other songs) c) to save "Russian Roulette" in the USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.44.87.59 (talk) 21:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

==The song has been released as a official promotional single on November 3, 2009. I Can source it but i was present during a promotion concert and rhianna annouinced it as a single.

It is her 2nd single. It was released in The UK, NZ, and Australia (and there are more on other iTunes stores). It also had a music video. A promo is a release to promote, but isn't available to public. But, she released this to the public with a music video. And the 3 facts you have listed are TOTALLY unsoured and original research. --59.101.144.232 (talk) 01:52, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Under construction

It was then listed to become a promo single. The song was released digitally on November 13, 2009. . "Wait Your Turn" is a hip hop and dubstep song that lasts for 3 minutes and 46 seconds.

She performed the song as a part of her performance on the 2009 American Music Awards. She performed the song on February 4, 2010, at the Super Bowl Fan Jam on VH1 along with performers Timbaland and Justin Bieber.

I'm just putting this here whilst I copy-edit the section and re-work everything. Calvin • ^NaNaNaC'mon! 19:47, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

References

Sources for expansion

• http://www.billboard.com/#/news/rihanna-song-leaks-interview-set-for-this-1004032433.story
• http://www.rap-up.com/2009/10/31/new-music-rihanna-wait-your-turn/
• http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/albumreviews/a188423/rihanna-rated-r.html
• http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1625266/rihanna-single-wait-your-turn-leaks-online.jhtml
• http://www.spin.com/articles/watch-rihannas-wait-your-turn-video

Calvin • ^NaNaNaC'mon! 19:49, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Close paraphrasing

A close paraphrasing flag has been placed in this article. The full notice has been left at Calvin999's talk page, as he wrote the paragraph in question. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 11:53, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I c/e it, it's a bit longer now with only a few quotes. Calvin • ^NaNaNaC'mon! 12:52, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Update for third opinion provider: Calvin999 has rewritten the paragraph in question (the second paragraph at Wait Your Turn#Live performances), which has transformed it from a near-word-for-word reproduction to an idea-for-idea reproduction. I believe this is still problematic. Calvin999 says it's permissible because it's in his own words and any synopsis of the live performance is bound to look similar. To that, I say no synopsis is possible here without the reliable source, and he should instead summarize the source in just a couple sentences to avoid competing with its commercial purpose. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 00:12, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

It's not. Why can't you get it into your head that no matter who writes it, it will follow the same chronological order as the MTV article. I'm against your idea of making 3 or 4 sentences. And the MTV source is still there. Calvin • ^NaNaNaC'mon! 11:35, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Intricate detail

Note: the following two entries were copied from Calvin999's talk page. Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 11:58, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Here's why I tagged the "Music video" section: It offers no insight. Has any reliable source seen fit to analyze the video rather than just describe it? Without knowing the reasons behind any of the choices made by the director/Rihanna/anyone else, the description of the video itself could be synopsized in one or two sentences and our understanding wouldn't suffer. (Why does the reader need to know what she was wearing in every scene?)Two Hearted River (paddle / fish)18:37, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

What she is wearing the in the video is apart of the whole images created. Otherwise there is nothing to talk about. Synopsis section's don't need sources. And I have completely re-written it now, there is none of that MTV source there, so the close paraphrasing thing can go. It was just a promo video. I don't get why you think all the answers to every question you pose to me exist, they don't. Calvin •^NaNaNaC'mon! 19:13, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

The reason why that section was tagged with {{Fancruft}} is because of that second paragraph which is a very detailed synopsis of the one performance Rihanna had which did not even get critical response or attention. That alone fails to satisfy core policy like significance (notability). You need not mention that, unless there's a reason to do. --Efe (talk) 14:26, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

The section you tagged is obviously crufty. Calvin seems to be more outraged at my tagging the "Music video" section, which is shorter but still longer than necessary and provides no insight, I believe. I just watched the video (muted), and here's how I would synopsize it: "The video features grainy, black and white nighttime footage of Rihanna singing the song at various New York City locations indoors and out." In the absence of discussion from reliable sources, I believe more intricate description is superfluous, thus the tag (which has been reverted twice). Two Hearted River (paddle / fish) 14:50, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Single, song, or what?

Well, i'm not involved in this but i'm willing to help. I know you guys and your fights over this was a single or promo or whatever it is, but it will be better of, as Calvin proposed, we reach a consensus on the talk page. I have no personal oponions on the matter, so I think i am the most apot to start this thread. Please make your comments here to reach a consensus. Cheers! —Hahc21 21:09, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

So you revert to it being a "single" with consensus? Right... Anyway, this is a promotional single. The news publications report it as such, never a single. It was even explained that it was scrapped as a second single in favour of "Hard". If people use their brain, they'd see "Wait Your Turn" didn't even chart on the Hot 100 despite live performances, hence why it's release as the second single was scrapped. They saw it wasn't performing, so clearly changed to promotional single since it was used as such. Where does it say that it's a single? And don't say iTunes, because they list all releases as a single. How else are people supposed to buy it for promotional single purposes? Anyway, it's a Promotional single and should stay as such. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 21:14, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

It didn't chart in the US because it wasn't released in the US. "Hard" was released as a US single, while "Wait Your Turn" was released internationally. Promotional singles are available for free, not for purchase. Please point to the source that states "Hard" was chosen instead, because I fail to see one. Statυs (talk) 21:35, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

It's what Wait Your Turn said, and it's what Hard currently says. This actually says WYT wasn't confirmed as a single by Def Jam. And it charted on the Bubbling Under Chart Status. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 21:45, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

The link you are showing me is from before it was released, and is therefore irrelevant. "Def Jam Records, Rihanna's label, was reached during press time but hadn't returned calls about whether "Wait Your Turn" is actually the album's second single." Statυs (talk) 21:52, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

But did Def Jam ever confirm it? No. Aaron • ^{You Da One} 21:53, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Labels don't have to confirm anything, you know. Christina Aguilera's label never called "Slow Down Baby" or "Oh Mother" singles. Does that make them not singles? Statυs (talk) 21:58, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Yeah Rihanna performed "Wait Your Turn" in some medleys in the US, however the main reason why the song didn't chart is because it wasn't released nor on the radios nor digitally nor physically. However, it was internationally released via iTunes in several countries meaning, the song was released digitally, making it a single. — Tomica (talk) 00:46, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Resume

We have by now, 2 votes in favor of single, 1 in favor of promo single. I think we'll need mor imput from uninvolved users to reach a consensus. May i put this on a RFC? —Hahc21 03:14, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Request for Comment

There has been some debate over this song as being a single or a promotional single. So, i ask the community to bring their opinion here and reach a consensus over the article. If this consensus is not reached soon, i think it may fail the stability requirement needed to hold its GA status and may be eventually delisted. Thanks. —Hahc21 03:24, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

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I'll provide some information for those who aren't aware of the premise of a promotional single vs a single. "In music, a single is a type of release, typically a recording of fewer tracks than an LP record or an album. This can be released for sale to the public in a variety of different formats." While, "A promotional recording, or promo, is an audio or video recording distributed for free". "Wait Your Turn" was released for purchase, apart from an album; therefore is a single. There are plenty of sources calling it a single (just to show a few). I have searched, and found zero sources claiming it to be a promotional single. Additionally, (for those who think they changed their mind on it being a single), here's a source calling the album's next single "Hard" the third single. Statυs (talk) 03:30, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

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Single

• Single – Per what I stated provided above. Statυs (talk) 03:32, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
• Single - MTV is a good reliable source that I have used on several of the pages I have worked on in particular I Need You and if it states it is a single I am more then likely willing to believe they have it right. So I would say if there is a source stating it as a single then that is what it is probably what it is but that is my personal opinion. ^_^ Swifty*^talk 03:35, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
• Single. Promotional singles are songs that have no price (they are free) and serve to promote the upcoming album. "Wait Your Turn" is smthg different. It is still available for digital download (it has price) via iTunes in certain countries. — Tomica (talk) 09:40, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
• Single — it was released in internationally multiple countries thus making it a single. Till 09:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
• The sources seem pretty clear on this. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 21:12, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Promotional single

• Promotional single

* Sources issue - The sources listed are not concrete in this argument. MTV (and as a result, other outlets) are often unsure of a song's release intentions when made digitally available, so they call it a "single" by default. This is evident with examples of: Hair (Lady Gaga song) and Bieber's Die in Your Arms. MTV's incorrect quoting of these songs as a "single" is evidenced in these 2 articles: for Gaga, for Bieber. Are they listed as singles on the respective album pages? Well no. Wait Your Turn is the same. (Assuming we realise the fact it has a video is not relevant to single release).

An example of when the intention for a promotional single was clear is for State of Grace (Taylor Swift song). Here, the artist released multiple singles in a row prior to album release each week, and it was evident they were purely promotional. Hence, Mtv called it as such in this release's article due to having a more concrete picture of its release.

* Pricing issue - The idea that a promotional single cannot be charged for is outdated and almost nonsensical. Who decided that? Nowhere else on WP is that stance upheld. Even Mtv (a basic music source) actually disputes that when they are sure of it (proved in the previous Taylor Swift article). A product can be promotional in nature without being free.

Elsewhere on WP, all 3 examples of other promotional singles I listed have called them that, in fact in Red (Taylor Swift album) the article has a whole section on "promotional singles", despite the iTunes releases being very like Wait Your Turn.

* International release? - Personally I therefore believe the only argument which would merit this song being called a single is the last made by User:Till. If it was indeed released internationally to radio, then fine. But where are the sources to back this up? Which countries? I know this is a 6 month old debate, so things are unlikely to change. But WP seems to have different sets of rules for some artists 333cale (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2013 (UTC)