Talk:WBF Open Ranking

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Contract bridge, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Contract bridge on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Contract bridgeWikipedia:WikiProject Contract bridgeTemplate:WikiProject Contract bridgeContract bridge articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Redlinks

Creator User:Rjeng2000 elsewhere suggested that some number of WBF Open leaders should have biographies here. The red links in this list would prompt the biographies.

For bridge people redlinks, see especially the List of contract bridge people and "New Article Nominations" at WP:WPCB#Articles requiring attention. --P64 (talk) 21:32, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WGM by Placing Points

For encyclopedia priorities, WBF rankings by Placing Points (PP) seem to me more useful than by Master Points (MP). (Martel and Stansby are the most important "red links" who rank higher by PP. See the table.) WBF once provided a list of WGM ranked by PP, or provided a sortable list. I haven't seen that for more than a year.

Here are the top twenty by PP, as incorporated in the ranking by MP, if I skim correctly.

MP_rank	PP_total
7	108	Bob Hamman
864	75	Benito Garozzo
1354	71	Giorgio Belladonna
175	70	Bobby Wolff
6	60	Jeff Meckstroth

8	59	Eric Rodwell
3855	58	Pietro Forquet
4	50	Lorenzo Lauria
5	45	Alfredo Versace
60	44	Paul Soloway
Those top ten do not include the three leaders by Master Points.
40	41	Gabriel Chagas
33	41	Lew Stansby
27	41	Chip Martel
3	41	Giorgio Duboin
10	37	Nick Nickell

1	37	Fulvio Fantoni
3856	36	Camillo Pabis Ticci
77	35	Marcelo Branco
2	35	Claudio Nunes
11	33	Norberto Bocchi
Those top twenty do not include #9 by Master Points (Zia).

This is not correct. For example, the longtime partners of Belladonna and Pabis Ticci, Walter Avarelli and Massimo D'Alelio do not appear.

By the way, the WBF preface to its Grand Master lists says "List correct as of 6 October 2010." Reference to the Open list and to "International record for Bauke MULLER". World Bridge Federation. shows that his listing is up to date 30 October 2011 at least, covering the October 2011 Bermuda Bowl. --P64 (talk) 21:32, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Women

On the Women side, the longtime partners Fritzi Gordon and Rixi Markus do not appear on the WBF list[1]. Among the top ten as listed, we have only a stub for #7 and an article for #9. The top five by PP are Jill Meyers, Sabine Auken (Zenkel), Lynn Deas, Catherine D'Ovidio (Saul), and Irina Levitina. --P64 (talk) 22:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've long been meaning to write an article for Sabine Auken, who I think has been the best woman player for ten years or more (even if the world rankings don't quite agree with me). But when I shall get around to it is anybody's guess. JH (talk page) 10:00, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

work on this article

Rjeng2000, I do not intend to take over. I made a few changes including a suggestive lead sentence (see Edit history). This is interesting to me, and I pursued the Placing Points so far as you see above. For now it lives only on this Talk page and I leave to whether it goes in this article somehow.

Finally I noticed your mention of citation trouble and I fixed the references using {{reflist}} which I prefer. I am not certain about <references group="groupname" /> but I guess it is something you copied from the manual(?) and group="groupname" represents a variable that you should omit because you have no named group. Using the template with a group named "groupname", the code should be {{reflist|group="groupname"}} --but "groupname" is a poor group name and quotation marks are redundant. --P64 (talk) 21:56, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of thoughts

The reader needs to know how up to date the list is, so the introduction needs to say something like "This is a list of the top 30 players in the world as at 4 December 2011 according to placing points and WBF Master Points." (Where the italics indicates my suggested addition.) To keep this list reasonably current is going to require frequent updating of the article and thus a long-term commitment from someone. JH (talk page) 22:07, 4 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[Rjeng2000, you have now met all three of us.] Because we have only three editors active before this fall , rather than a "group" project worth the adjective, I agree that we can't make any collective commitment. On the other hand, I think that annual update after the world championships are in the books is plenty frequent for "someone".

The reference "Retrieved date" should be maintained. The preface should try to identify the most recent major tournament. If created one month ago, in particular, it should have stated that the October 2011 Worlds were not in the books. --P64 (talk) 23:51, 5 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW way user name is Rjeng2000 ... :D

interjection: Oops!, I have corrected your username above. And I have put colons in this Talk code, which progressively indent the display for readability. --P64 (talk) 22:38, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also I could make a commitment to update this article.(talk) 7:28 5 December 2011

I noticed your edit Newwhist and some of the bridge players (at least up to 20) are WLMs not WGMs so I think we may need a "title" for our chart. Also this depends on how long we want the list to be. If it is up to 10 then we don't so.......... (talk) 5:25 7 December 2011 —Preceding undated comment added 22:26, 7 December 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Below the table I have briefly related Points to team/pair/individual play, especially national teams. It just so happens ;-) that illustrates the use of template {{gcb}} for convenient linked reference to our Glossary of contract bridge terms. --P64 (talk) 22:38, 7 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Umm Also Tor Helness isn't the leading player, and he's at Rank 14 not 12. His Partner Geir Helgemo is 12th in the rankings making him the highest rank outside of US or Italy. (I have changed it in the article.......

(talk)

World Grand Master and other titles

When the table was first constructed, it had a column for "Title" which I deleted and instead added the statement "All are World Grand Masters" because at the time that was all there was on the list. Going forward, instead of complicating the text, I propose putting the "Title" column back in when there is a player who has a different title than World Grand Master; till then, leave as is. Newwhist (talk) 12:48, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rather than a dedicated column, I suggest that a mark such as double dagger (‡) be used within one column, perhaps immediately following the linked player name. Anyway, it's something to consider for tables here and elsewhere. If the Key is so simple as this would be, simply follow the table with indented explanation thus:

‡ World International Master. All others are World Grand Masters.

Something like that. --P64 (talk) 00:00, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

However, it would not be World International Master. It would be WLM: World Life Master. WLM is higher than WIM. WLM: (talk)Rjeng2000 02:25, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As we now list only the top 10 rather than top 30 this point does not bear on the table. And we no longer say anything about titles in prose.

The 19 highest-ranking players were WGM as of December 2011; the 21 highest as of October 2012. (WBF has not updated what is available online --no change in data we retrieved October 2012. I revised the page to make that clear and provide some context.)

There are two WLM in the top 30 (on Page 1 now, presumably also October 2012): 22 Andrey GROMOV and 30 Josef PIEKAREK. The next 30 include 14 WLM and two WIM: 54 Vadim KHOLOMEEV and 60 Yury KHIUPPENEN.

--P64 (talk) 17:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

New article - Lorenzo Lauria

I have started to make a page for the people on the WBF open ranking list such as Lorenzo Lauria. Rjeng2000 (talk) 21:34, 19 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No update by WBF in 17+ months

WBF has not updated what is available online --no change in data we retrieved October 2012. I revised the page to make that clear and provide some context.

This is a puzzle to me. The conclusion is evident by reference to our page history; I expected to find that someone had revised the table without change in the prose or the formal reference that provide late 2012 dates, but that is not so.

Online WBF player records do include subsequent tournaments, from 11th European Champions' Cup (Nov 2012) to 12th European Champions' Cup (Nov 2013) taking for exampleWBF: Fulvio Fantoni.

--P64 (talk) 17:15, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]