Talk:Votadini

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linguistic changes

Re: "linguistic changes", I've tagged this as dubious. Firstly, there's no citation. Secondly, one name's in Latin and the other's in Welsh, so any argument for a linguistic change would be spectacularly weak. 82.36.26.70 (talk) 14:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. This article has sources at the foot, dating from the days before inline citation links. My understanding is that it could be the same name, recorded one way by the Romans and another way in old Welsh, though possibly the name changed a bit over a few hundred years. . . dave souza, talk 17:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Languages change. This is well established and understood. A name first recorded as Votadini, then as Guotodin, then as Gododdin, demonstrates those changes quite vividly. The fact that many laymen do not understand this is no reason to call it "dubious" or to delete it. I have rewritten Dave's rewrite, as Gododdin is not Old Welsh and language change is an important part of the variant names, and added a "citation needed" tag, rather than a "dubious" tag, bacause all the sources I have immediately available on language change are on Irish. I would imagine Kenneth Jackson's Language and History in Early Britain will probably cover this. --Nicknack009 (talk) 01:43, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the knowledgeable rewrite, it makes much more sense with the transition from Guotodin to Gododdin shown. In a sense the statement "resulting from established processes of language change" isn't really needed as the change in name from Old Welsh to later Welsh is self evident. However, we can hope that the tag will attract someone with a suitable reference. Thanks again, dave souza, talk 17:56, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]