Talk:Vitamin E/GA2

GA Review

Passed ChopinChemist ^Talk? 23:26, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: David notMD (talk · contribs) 21:12, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: ChopinChemist (talk · contribs) 16:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I'll be happy to review this article. Let me know if you're ready for feedback. Given that the article has been reviewed before, my assessment will mostly based on what caused the article to fail in the last review and see if there are any other changes necessary. I may also ask you some questions regarding the article so I have a better understanding of what you're trying to convey. Note that the GA review process box above will not start until you're ready for feedback. ChopinChemist ^Talk? 16:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Previous GA

More coverage on other countries.

YProvided

'Function' section. Rationale: Anti-oxidant is buried while specific functions are spread out

YProvided

Current GA

MoS compliance

Lead section

Vitamin E is classified as an essential nutrient for humans... The first sentence should define what Vitamin E is and following that would be the sentence that determine its significance to humans (since Vitamin E is a human nutrient is pretty common knowledge)

(ex: Vitamin E is a group of eight molecular-structure related compounds that include four tocopherols and four tocotrienols. It functions as a fat-soluble antioxidant which may help protect cell membranes from reactive oxygen species, and is classified as an essential nutrients for humans... ).

Order of content in first paragraph of Lead revised. 09 Nov David notMD (talk) 14:35, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The lead section should also address function of tocotrienols, since the first two sentence of the article mentions tocopherols and tocotrienols but only address tocopherols' function. If no known function available then it should still be mentioned as such, but I highly doubt that's the case.
Declining use was theorized to be due to publications of meta-analyses that showed either no benefits or actual negative consequences from high-dose vitamin E.[8][9][10][11][12], :Try to specify which paper mentions no benefits to vitamin E and which mentions negative consequences. These two claims are pretty substantial so inline citation is a must.

Ref placement changed so as to distinguish between the refs that reported no benefits from those that documented negative consequences. David notMD (talk) 19:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Layout

The sections Serum content definitions of deficiency and Vaping-associated lung injury seems out of place and should be incorporated as follows: Serum content definitions of deficiency to Deficiency and Vaping-associated lung injury to Medical applications

Serum content definitions of deficiency incorporated into the Deficiency section. I disagree that Vaping-associated lung injury should be relocated to Medical applications, as MAs are intentions to prevent or treat, whereas vaping injuries was an unintended consequence of a manufacturing decision. David notMD (talk) 19:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Acknowledged. You should add a parenthetical expression for Vitamin E acetate since Vitamin E acetate it is only mentioned in that paragraph and it helps with minimizing confusion. If i'm correct then vitamin E acetate is similar to tocopheryl acetate, so here's an example to do so: "The CDC stated in February 2020 that previous research suggested inhaled vitamin E acetate (tocopheryl acetate)"ChopinChemist ^Talk? 03:33, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Section on Vaping-associated lung injury revised accordingly. Also, Wikilink to CDC shifted to first sentence. David notMD (talk) 11:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Words to watch

No words of concern

List incorporation

Appropriate use of lists

Citations

~~^{[non-primary source needed]} for For comparison, vitamin C remained constant and vitamin D increased by 454%. If addressed by source [60] nearby than you may delete this.~~ See comment below
There is evidence that use and sale of vitamin E supplements has decreased by up to 53% in the United States between about 1998 and 2006. This sentence is incorrect; it should be as follows per source: "There is evidence that the sale of vitamin E has decreased by up to 33% following a report showing little or no effect of vitamin E in preventing cancer and cardiovascular disease"

Text changed. David notMD (talk) 12:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence For comparison, vitamin C remained constant and vitamin D increased by 454% should be removed since the source:[1] only focus on active duty members and may not reflect society as a whole. The sentence is also inconsistent with the last, as 454% refers to increase is in Vitamin E prescription (use) rather than both prescription and sale, which is what the sentence before addresses.

sentence and ref removed. David notMD (talk) 12:00, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add citation for the image showing synthesis of tocopheryl acetate (Synthesis>Biosynthesis) as there are many ways a compound can be synthesized. If no source is available then image should be removed.

The synthesis image is from Commons, described as "Own work" by account Yikrazuul (2008) David notMD (talk) 15:43, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've read through the synthesis part and noticed that the synthesis from the diagram corresponds to the Industrial Synthesis part, and the source [2] also addresses the use of acetic anhydride from the diagram so I will waive this requirement for now. ChopinChemist ^Talk? 01:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some references of concern: Ref [108] is from a Rolling Stone article, which is considered unreliable for political and social news . Suggested source to replace (from New England Journal of Medicine): https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa1916433 from New England Journal of Medicine.

Replaced RollingStone ref with NEJMed ref. David notMD (talk) 22:59, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Individual comments

Drug interactions

Consumption of alpha-tocopherol as a dietary supplement in amounts in excess of 300 mg/day may lead to interactions with aspirin, warfarin and cyclosporine A in ways that alter function.. Add tamoxifen per source: "Consumption of high-dose vitamin E supplements (≥ 300 mg/d), however, may lead to interactions with the drugs aspirin, warfarin, tamoxifen and cyclosporine A that may alter their activities "[3] and remove source [1] (Vitamin E fact sheet) since that source does not support the info above.

For the second sentence, added tamoxifen and removed the use of the Fact Sheet ref. David notMD (talk) 15:35, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dietary Recommendation

India recommends an intake of 8–10 mg/day. For all ages? If so then the detail should be included.

replaced ref for 2009 draft report with ref for 2020 final report, specifies 7.5-10 mg/day for adults David notMD (talk) 15:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Remove: Worldwide, consumption is below recommendations according to a summary of more than one hundred studies that reported a median dietary intake of 6.2 mg per day for alpha-tocopherol.[4]. Already mentioned in "Dietary Rec." Also remove Palm oil is a source of tocotrienols.[17] as it seems out of place. Instead discuss if tocotrienols play a role in diet. Should incorporate into a separate table that describes natural source of tocotrienols, unless very few natural sources contain tocotrienols then you can list them in a sentence.

Removed text. Also removed from table the duplication of an entry for canola oil. Still need to address tocotrienol sources. David notMD (talk) 09:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is not enough information of tocotrienol sources to justify a table. Text and two refs copied from Tocotrienol. David notMD (talk) 03:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Medical applications

Expand Age-related macular degeneration section by following other section's style of writing. Example include starting with "A research showed..."

Text revised to provide more information on the nature of the reference and the conclusions of the review. David notMD (talk) 09:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@David notMD:More feedbacks coming soon. Also ping me if this is addressed.

Status changed to On hold.ChopinChemist ^Talk? 21:08, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ChopinChemist I have addressed the initial set of comments and the follow-ups on those. Please ping me if there are more comments that will need to be addressed before making the GA review decision. David notMD (talk) 12:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David notMD Overall you have done a great job at incorporating my feedback into the article. I did provide some more feedback and if you are able to address them at your convenience, then this article will definitely get a GA status.ChopinChemist ^Talk? 21:56, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ChopinChemist Some family complications intervened , but I intend to address all the outstanding requests today, and then if there are any new, or follow-up called for on existing, work quickly through those. You patience appreciated, and also you pointing to potential replacement citations, which is more help than I've received on other GA nominations. David notMD (talk) 13:51, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the compliment. I want to try providing sources so my GA review doesn't sound unconstructive. I don't fail articles when I review them unless they need to be quick failed. ChopinChemist ^Talk? 15:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I have addressed the remaining comments. Please ping me if any more revisions needed. David notMD (talk) 15:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David notMD I have waived the request to add source to the photo. However, the first paragraph of the lead section doesn't address tocotrienol in detail even though it is mentioned along with tocopherols (and tocopherol's function is discussed). Reading through some literature, I found that tocotrienols are often neglected so should there be a way to discuss this? Source:

Tocotrienols: The Emerging Face of Natural Vitamin E

Tocotrienols: Vitamin E beyond tocopherols

This is just an idea that you can consider. ChopinChemist ^Talk? 02:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I put in some time reviewing (and editing) the Tocotrienol article plus the meta-analyses and systematic reviews on tocotrienol. Based on this, I revised the Tocotrienol section in Vitamin E. CK Sen (the author of the two reviews you listed) has published on tocotrienols spanning 2000-2020, including those reviews and a similar review dated 2011 (PMID 22013739). I concluded that his reviews were not reference-worthy for either the Vitamin E or the tocotrienol articles, as his work was in vitro and animal research. In my revision I included human research meta-analyses or systematic reviews from Rafique 2024 (PMID 38948984), Li 2022 (PMID 33909529) and Khor 2021 (PMID 34297765). David notMD (talk) 17:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for considering my feedback and incorporating it into the article. Overall, the article is very detailed, and you have done an excellent job of incorporating my feedback and going beyond the line of duty to improve the article. I will grant this article the GA status. Congratulations and I look forward to seeing more vitamin GA articles from you (maybe even a Good topic for Vitamins).ChopinChemist ^Talk? 23:19, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Outside opinion

I saw this page in the GAN list and had to take a look for such a big topic.

It is my opinion that this page far exceeds the GA criteria now, and that minutiae such as discussing specific compounds in detail, are not necessary for GA status. When this inevitably comes up for FA review, that may change, but I feel it is time to award GA. Just-a-can-of-beans (talk) 18:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your opinion about the quality of the article. The review process has identified weak references, oversights, unneeded digressions, etc. It has been a long-term (2016 onward) goal of mine to raise all of the vitamin articles to GA status. Vitamin E will be the 12th, leaving only vitamin D. As to whether these have achieved quasi-FA quality, probably not. Earlier this year I proposed vitamin C for FA, having completed GA in 2017, and was declined after scores and scores of edits and back-and-forth with the group of FA reviewers. I have not yet decided whether to return to C or start in on D. Either will be a long, hard task. David notMD (talk) 21:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, thank you for doing so, even if FA status was ultimately rejected. It is an important thing - although they of course should not do so, many government agencies, programs, and even academic institutions will use pages like that in ways that will concretely impact the life and health of their populace. I hope you know that even without a shiny badge, people appreciate your work in improving topics like these which are so important and impactful that many of us fear to so much as touch them. Just-a-can-of-beans (talk) 21:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]