Talk:Victoria Brownworth

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A fact from Victoria Brownworth appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 April 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Victoria Brownworth was the first open lesbian to write a column in a daily newspaper in the United States?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Victoria Brownworth.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 12:23, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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~~... that Victoria Brownworth was the first open lesbian to write a column about lesbian topics in a daily newspaper?~~ Source: https://www.windycitytimes.com/lgbt/BOOKS-Tiny-Satchel-Press-gives-LGBT-youth-of-color-a-voice/34079.html

Created by Significa liberdade (talk). Self-nominated at 15:24, 6 February 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Article was new enough and long enough at the time of the nomination. The hook fact is cited inline and verified. You appear to not have any prior DYK credits, please confirm if this is the case. Given that the hook fact is quite strong, are there any other sources that also confirm it? If none, I'm willing to accept the source that's already in the article, I'm just wondering if there are also other references that also talk about it. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:07, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I do not have any DYK credits. As for sourcing, I found an article Brownworth wrote for Dame in which she mentions "co-found[ing] the first lesbian radio program in the country, with Jesse Ford and Rose Weber, called Amazon Country; co-edit[ing] a lesbian quarterly, Wicce"; being "the first out lesbian with a daily newspaper column"; as well as "publish[ing] the first book on lesbians and cancer" and "the first book on lesbians and disability." Given that Brownworth wrote the article, though, I don't think it's reliable in this instance. I can't find other sources at the moment, though. "50 Years After Stonewall: How Much Has Changed?" Significa liberdade (talk) 20:44, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Just to clarify, does the hook refer to worldwide or just the United States? There's the possibility that someone else outside the U.S. may have been the first open lesbian to write a column about lesbian topics in a daily newspaper, so more sources clarifying this would be appreciated. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:04, 17 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Significa liberdade: Any updates on this end? Given how strong the statement is it may be better to specify "in the United States" or find at least independent source supporting the statement. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:20, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- No updates, sorry.Significa liberdade (talk) 13:38, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Noted. I still have some reservations about the sourcing so I'd like to hear a second opinion from another editor, ideally one whose editing interest is either LGBT or journalism. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:14, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    - This claim is also repeated in page 171 of Doan-Minh, Sarah (Winter 2019). "Corrective Rape: An Extreme Manifestation of Discrimination and the State's Complicity in Sexual Violence". Hastings Women's Law Journal. 30 (1): 167–197.. The trauma that rape victims experience is often intensified for lesbians. Victoria Brownworth, the first out lesbian to have a column in a daily newspaper, shared her experience in "Lesbians and Rape: Another Coming-Out Story. Some adjustments to the hook may be necessary (she's the first lesbian to have a daily column -- that's not the same as the first lesbian to have a daily column about lesbian issues, which could have been someone else). Urve (talk) 19:38, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      - @Urve: this confuses me—how could another lesbian have had a daily column about lesbian issues before the first lesbian to ever have a daily column of any kind? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:31, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        I am the first Urve to have a column. I write about paleontology. A second Urve comes along and has a column about the name Urve. She would be the first Urve to have a column about the name, but not the first Urve to have a column. Urve (talk) 04:28, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        Sorry, this example isn't a direct response to your question, Theleekycauldron. The issue is actually not that there could have been a preceding lesbian to have a column about lesbian issues (that's impossible if she's the first lesbian to have a daily column). I just mean to say that being the first lesbian to have a daily column does not necessarily mean that she is the first lesbian to have a daily column about lesbian issues. The implication does not necessarily follow. By analogy: There have been many openly gay poets, but it probably took a while for there to be an openly gay poet writing about being a gay poet. It could be the case that she was, but I wouldn't rely on her word alone for it; since I can't verify that elsewhere, I think the following is best: ... that Victoria Brownworth was the first open lesbian to write a column in a daily newspaper? Urve (talk) 12:33, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        
        @Urve: if you could add the citation to the hook sentence in the article, I could tick that hook? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 22:44, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        done, Urve (talk) 07:38, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        Pinging theleekycauldron, so the offer can be acted upon if the citation is satisfactory. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:55, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        good to go with Urve's modified hook! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 03:07, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        Reproducing Urve's modified hook below so it's easy for a promoter to find: —BlueMoonset (talk) 04:06, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        ... that Victoria Brownworth was the first open lesbian to write a column in a daily newspaper?

Early life?

This article, while an ostensible biography, gives two possibilities for the subject's birth year and then jumps right to her "personal life" in her mid-thirties, skipping over the first three decades of her life: parents, siblings, education, key experiences. The article circles back to a smattering of information, but there are some pretty glaring omissions. Surely this information is out there, in this day and age. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 22:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For example, it took seconds to get a birth date: February 21, 1956. --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 22:43, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you find the information, please add it to the wiki page! When I search for her birthdate, the only source I find is unreliable. Presently, the birth month and year are based on information provided in interviews. Significa liberdade (talk) 19:49, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]