Talk:Victor Houteff

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edit history watch purge Expand "Glacier View Controversy" section, to include more background, history, theological issues, and details of the Glacier View meeting itself Add to "Adventist Responses to Criticisms" section, ideally with material from Adventist scholars etc.

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Point of View (POV) tag

I added the POV tag. The article does not have a NPOV. The tone is negative towards the Seventh-day Adventist Church and positive towards Victor Houteff and the Shepherd's Rod. Few references are provided. -Colin MacLaurin 19:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Substantiate. Obviously this piece is a work in progress as it hardly concludes Houteff's life.

POV it does have a NPOV. with all respect the sda church treated houteff in a mannor that to describe accurately would only sound negative towards them. that is the fact of the matter, its like saying it is unfair to talk about the way the jews treated Christ because it paints them in a negative light (not all jews behaved that way just thoughs who desired to see Christ crucified). i'm sorry but it is what it is!

The SDA church in no way crucified Victor Houteff. As for POV: no info is given regarding the reasons for his diffellowship or any info from the non-Houteff side. Other than implied (and unsubtantiated) corruption in SDA leadership nothing is said as to the doctrinal reasons for that occurence. And not much is explained in the way of what Houteff taught. The intro to his writings does not constitute explanation of the contents thereof. This article is decidedly POV as no sources or references are given to "external" (i.e. non-Houteff) info. A one sided story is just that: one sided. I'll research this subject and add anything relevant that I come across. And although I am an SDA that doesn't negate the relevancy of my points.

P.S. please add user/timestamps by pressing "~" four time at the end of posts. It's considered a common courtesy by most. Historiocality 05:47, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/Independent%20Ministries/branchdavidians.htm Historiocality 05:47, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.sdadefend.com/WolvesinFleeces/Rods%201.htm Historiocality (talk) 17:18, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WS:COTW

This is a note to inform all interested watchers of this article that Wikisource has chosen the Branch Davidians and Waco Siege as their Collaboration of the Week.

This means that we are spending this week collecting, copying and formatting Public Domain documents related to the church and its 1993 siege. This includes speeches by David Koresh, Federal documents in the aftermath of the siege, the charges against Lon Horiuchi and the surviving church members, and early church documents whose copyright have expired.

We would encourage you all to come help us, if you have any questions, feel free to leave a question on my talk page - either on Wikisource or Wikipedia!

I hope to see some of you there, helping us document the primary sources for future research and historical analysis!

Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 21:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality is no issue.

To claim that this article is not pro-Adventist church is not a clear enough descrtiption, either does it offer any merit w/out a burden of more proof. After reading this article, and the dispute talk here on this page by what I expect is a well meaning gentleman, I must admit that if someone were wanting to create an anti-Adventist position within this subject of Victor Houteff, one could have absolutely no problem giving personal testimony from Victor Houteff and others who worked with him about his experiences with God, and with those who desired to take his life during his mission inside the Seventh Day Adventist denomination.

Furthermore, to this day, no Seventh Day Adventist anywhere can dispute the message Victor Houteff carried to the church without both common sense questions arising, as well as denominational concerns arising out of the denominations own beliefs and writings of their founding Prophet Ellen G, White. An unbiased table of Christians who had never been a seventh Day Adventist would most likely be able to agree with these statements.

And of any parallel that could have been used my the gentleman offering dispute, the one chosen agrees far more with my concern than his. Both Romans and Jews together, deciding amongst small groups of themselves, and arguably not acting in their nations better interests, did in fact crucify a man called Jesus, whom is believed my some, like me, to be a the Messiah. Historical fact! Likewise, a man named Victor Houteff was brought to America, became a Seventh Day Adventist, and was treated as less than a decent person in public despite not being able to accredit any crime to him. Historical fact! And please know, the Seventh Day Adventist church leadership has not treated either Victor Houteff or Ellen G. White as they should have in the past or present. Neither them in person during their lives, or their writings now.

And lastly.... Victor Houteff's writings forbid another message to come to the church until the church is purified by the Hand of God. So any Branch Davidian information is to be separated from this discussion without ending up embarrassing one's self. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mysaviorandme (talk • contribs) 19:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:30, 15 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Branch Davidians

The Branch Davidians are not mentioned in this article, at least not by that name. David Koresh's page indicates that Houteff is the founder, and the lack of info to the contrary leaves a reader to conclude that the publications and teachings of Victor Houteff tesulted in the Davidian sect within SDA church. If that is not the case, some clarification is in order. From whence does the name derive? Were they 'Davidian' before the advent of Koresh? rags (talk) 19:06, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

See Shepherd's Rod. Houteff did not found the Branch Davidians, he founded the Davidian Seventh Day Adventists from which the Branch Davidians separated in a schism. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:22, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think that may be the quickest response I have ever received on a talkpage. Thank you. rags (talk) 19:30, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mt Carmel

Why is section 5.0 entitled 'Mt Carmel? If no explanation is forthcoming, I am inclined to relabel it 'Later Life and Death', or some such, in parallel with other biographical articles. rags (talk) 19:27, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind. I found it. I may add a line of explanation, for us non-SDA's. rags (talk) 20:19, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]