Talk:Vesta Tilley/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Tim riley (talk · contribs) 13:41, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I am sorry to see this enjoyable article has been languishing in the GAN waiting room since last August, but better late than never. It looks promising. I thought at first it seemed on the short side, but I find it is almost exactly the same length as the ODNB article on the subject. This article is not quite of GA standard yet, though. The referencing needs some tightening. These book references are all over the place: name order, punctuation, capitalisation, location all inconsistent:

• Sarah Maitland (1986) Vesta Tilley p14, Virago Press, London ISBN 0-86068-795-3
• Lady de Frece, Recollections of Vesta Tilley, London: Hutchinson, 1934. p. 52.
• Ward, Arthur (2015). A guide to war publications of the First and Second World War : from training guides to propaganda posters. Pen & Sword. p. 94. ISBN 9781783831548. Retrieved 12 June 2020.

The cite book template is very useful in keeping one on the straight and narrow in such matters; it is not compulsory, but I recommend it.

We are asked (Wikipedia:ISBN) to standardise, as a general rule, on 13-digit hyphenated ISBNs, for which this tool is invaluable. Those wanted here are 978-0-86-068795-5 and 978-1-78-383154-8. For books from the pre-ISBN era it is usual to provide an OCLC number, which you can get from WorldCat (here, in this case).

The newspaper citations are inconsistent, too. You tell us that The Times is published in London, but not where the other papers are or were published. The citation to The Era has the wrong date. There was no issue on that day. You mean 7 April.

A few points on the text:

• Lead: You could, and I think should, link to Member of Parliament (United Kingdom) rather than the generic MP article.
• Early years: Sims Reeves was known by just the two names (as in our article). Why add the "John"?
• Wartime work: Military history is not my strong suit, but I don't think a battalion can be a platoon, whatever the source thinks. I may be wrong.
• Retirement

• "…becoming Lady de Frece. Frece decided to run…" – It is wrong when using his surname to call him just "Frece". You can see from Times archives that he is written of as "de Frece" (or "De Frece if at the start of a sentence, as here).
• "Her husband served in office until 1931" – "in office" suggests holding a ministerial post, which he didn't. "Served as an MP" would be clearer.

I'll put the review on hold for a week to give you time to address these points. Happy to discuss further in the mean time. – Tim riley talk 13:41, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this on, I've given the article a read to refresh my memory and I'll ping when I've answered the comments. Mujinga (talk) 09:16, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Maitland  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Lady de Frece  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Ward  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Those wanted here are 978-0-86-068795-5 and 978-1-78-383154-8. For books from the pre-ISBN era it is usual to provide an OCLC number, which you can get from WorldCat (here, in this case).  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• You tell us that The Times is published in London, but not where the other papers are or were published.

added London for The Era, Bournemouth for the Echo  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• The citation to The Era has the wrong date. There was no issue on that day. You mean 7 April.  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Lead: You could, and I think should, link to Member of Parliament (United Kingdom) rather than the generic MP article.  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Early years: Sims Reeves was known by just the two names (as in our article). Why add the "John"? removed  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• Wartime work: Military history is not my strong suit, but I don't think a battalion can be a platoon, whatever the source thinks. I may be wrong.

agreed on this, it seemed a bit odd, so I've reworded to remove "battalion" Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• "…becoming Lady de Frece. Frece decided to run…" – It is wrong when using his surname to call him just "Frece". You can see from Times archives that he is written of as "de Frece" (or "De Frece if at the start of a sentence, as here).  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

• "Her husband served in office until 1931" – "in office" suggests holding a ministerial post, which he didn't. "Served as an MP" would be clearer.  Done Mujinga (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

@Tim riley: thanks for the helpful comments, I've responded on all of them I hope, see what you think Mujinga (talk) 09:46, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Overall summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   Well referenced.

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   Well referenced.

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   Well illustrated.

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   Well illustrated.

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Happy to pass this pleasing article for GA. Tim riley talk 20:11, 3 March 2021 (UTC)