Talk:Veronica Volkersz

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A fact from Veronica Volkersz appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 27 January 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that beauty queen Veronica Volkersz (pictured) was the first woman to pilot an operational jet fighter?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/January. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Veronica Volkersz.

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Maiden name

There are various garbled versions out there including Innis and MacInnis. I'm going by what people who have seen the birth and death certificates say – that her birth name was Veronica May Innes. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:54, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bits and pieces

to incorporate from The Hurricane GirlsJo Wheeler · 2018 . google preview doesnt show page numbers this is what I got from preview:

In 1943 Veronica did her Class 4 Plus, which allowed her to fly the Mosquito bomber and Lockheed Hudson. She was also cleared to fly the Typhoon fighter.

In January 1944 she married a Dutch pilot an became Volkersz.

In March 1944 she was promoted flight captain. "It was hard to believe she had only joined the ATA three years earlier as a nervous sprog"

But maybe all this is in her book. Loew Galitz (talk) 17:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ATA women pilots at No.15 Ferry Pool, Hamble, in 1943. Here Mary Ellis is with friends, standing second right of the picture. In the front row, left to right, are: Rita Baines, Rosemary Bannister, Faith Bennett, Rosemary Rees, Margot Gore, Veronica Volkersz, Jackie Sorour, Mary Wilkins, Margaret Frost. In the back row, again left to right, are: Pam Tulk-Hart, Joy Gough, Sylvia Edwards, Monique Agazarian and Helen Kerly

It is nice to see that the majority of these ladies got their article, but some are still missing. Anyone? "Women in Red"? Loew Galitz (talk) 18:06, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 11:57, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

Her maiden name was Veronica May Innes

... that Veronica Volkersz (pictured) was a beauty queen who needed cushions to fly some aircraft but was the first woman to pilot an operational jet fighter? Source: Jo Wheeler (2018), "1,2,7,8,9,11,13,22,23,26,28", The Hurricane Girls, Penguin, ISBN 9780241354643
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Play-by-mail game ‎
- Comment: There's a bit more to write about her post-war career and life but we have enough to get started.

Created by Andrew Davidson (talk). Self-nominated at 23:48, 6 December 2021 (UTC).[reply]

@Andrew Davidson: Interesting read. Over 5x expansion from 11/30 through 12/6. Mostly offline sources, accepted on good faith. Issues: 1) The second sentence of 'Early life' needs a citation. 2) Any sentence containing a quote needs a citation directly after the sentence: see 5th paragraph of 'Second World War'. 3) A citation should be added directly after "she took to RAF Moreton Valence". Otherwise good to go. Ping me when these are addressed. Al Ameer (talk) 18:53, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I feel like the hook is long and unwieldy. How about something shorter but attention-getting like this? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:42, 11 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1 ... that beauty queen Veronica Volkersz (pictured) was the first woman to pilot an operational jet fighter? Source: Jo Wheeler (2018), "1,2,7,8,9,11,13,22,23,26,28", The Hurricane Girls, Penguin, ISBN 9780241354643

ALT1: ... that beauty queen Veronica Volkersz (pictured) was the first woman to pilot an operational jet fighter? The article was 5 times expanded, interesting topic, Great photo, no copyright issues in the article. Bruxton (talk) 03:32, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Her maiden name was Veronica May Innes

- @Andrew Davidson: I'm not sure if you were around for this, but last month, we ran an image of Volkersz mistakenly thinking it was Ida Veldhuyzen van Zanten. It'd be too good an opportunity to pass to not re-use that image. Plus, we could correct the record just a little. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/she) 07:04, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @Andrew Davidson: If you don't mind the delay, this might be a nice one to keep for International Women's Day on 8th March? (And a flyby opinion, ALT1 is snappier). DrThneed (talk) 01:59, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Al Ameer son I fixed two citation issues and removed the unreferenced sentence about her father since it has been unverified for so long. The sentence isn't about the article's subject anyway. SL93 (talk) 15:25, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Now that the article is fully referenced, it is a pass from me. I support replacing the original hook with ALT1, and agree that this would be good to reserve for Intl Women’s day, if nominator is ok to wait longer. —Al Ameer (talk) 15:50, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've picked this up again, having got another book to go through. Addressing various points raised above:

The ALT1 hook is unsatisfactory because it's just a "first woman" which is a tired cliché at DYK now. The bit about the cushions tried to do more and I've found another interesting detail – that, after she flew a Meteor in 1945, a woman did not fly an RAF jet again until 1992.
I'm aware that a cropped version of the picture was incorrectly run before. I prefer the full length picture as the cropped version cuts out the heavy fur gloves and boots which seem especially evocative. As we've run the cropped version before, we should run the full picture this time.
International Women's Day seems irrelevant. There are lots of promotional days such as International Civil Aviation Day but, per WP:PROMO, we're not here to promote particular causes. Projects such as Women in Red continually produce new articles about women and so we are unlikely to be short of candidates for that particular day. The most important priority is to put this in a set in which this can be the picture hook, as we have an especially good picture which we want to run to set the record straight, right?
I have reverted SL93's removal of material from the article.

Andrew🐉(talk) 18:19, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can't argue much with Andrew's rebuttal, especially regarding Intl Women's day or not cropping the image. The article is still fully cited to RS after the revert. If the original hook is to be used, it might be better to revise it slightly to "that beauty queen Veronica Volkersz (pictured) needed cushions to fly some aircraft but was the first woman to pilot an operational jet fighter?", to reduce wordiness. Al Ameer (talk) 18:38, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Davidson I'm glad that you sourced the content. To be clear, I only removed the sentence because it was unreferenced this entire time while you have been editing. I understand that you continued to edit the article after you found a new book to use, but giving a short update is still possible. Any DYK contributor could have decided to close this nomination without any of your input. Your comment may make it seem to those who come here later that I removed referenced content. SL93 (talk) 18:44, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Al Ameer son You said - A citation should be added directly after "she took to RAF Moreton Valence". I added the direct citation which has been removed. Do you not need that? SL93 (talk) 19:01, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not a big thing as the reference is there, but any quotation should be directly cited, meaning immediately after the sentence. Not sure if the citation was removed intentionally or inadvertently as part of the general revert, but a citation should be restored. —Al Ameer (talk) 19:11, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I'm confused. That part wasn't directly quoted when I got to it. SL93 (talk) 19:12, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I now have a source with good details of the Meteor flight. This took place after WW2 and so I plan to break this out into a separate section. More anon. Andrew🐉(talk) 00:08, 22 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1 to T:DYK/P3