Talk:Vegvísir

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Rune vs. sun compass vs. sunstone

After checking out the reference links and doing some other Googling, I feel like this article is getting 3 or more completely different things mixed up: the magic rune-like symbol, the sun compass (of which only 2 artifacts exist), and the "sunstone" mentioned in literature. There does not appear to be any evidence that these three things were related to each other. Just to be clear: the sun compass artifacts do not feature the symbols on Bjork's tattoo, and the sun-stone thing is not directly associated with either the magic symbol or with the sun compass. 151.197.64.210 (talk) 22:38, 20 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it was a bit confusing. I changed the lede sentence, as it did not match up with the rest of the article. I also removed the external link to the symbol / tattoo, as it had no relationship to the article (other than having a drawing of one of the rune-like symbols on the sun compass, among many other run-like symbols). Another editor linked to the new article Sunstone (medieval), which should help clarify that as being a different artifact. JoeSperrazza (talk) 16:04, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. The Icelandic name "Vegvísir" is a name for this magic symbol and nothing else. This article should not associate the name Vegvísir with any artifacts related to medieval navigation, and not with Vikings at all. A proper way to improve the article would be to find the reference for the symbol (which might be an Icelandic 17th century collection of magical symbols). It is also worth checking if the picture is correct (I am thinking if the circle is original, - I suspect it isn't (try googling an image of the thing)). ArniEin (talk) 09:01, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The reference to Björk is, however, relevant as her use of the symbol has obviously generated a lot of interest in it.ArniEin (talk) 09:05, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The following was removed earlier from this article and should perhaps be put back in (I changed "compass" into "guide" which is a more appropriate translation):

Vegvísir (guide) is an Icelandic magic sign intended to guide people through rough weather. Icelandic singer Björk has it tattooed on her left arm.

Everything else can be safely deleted as irrelevant to the heading. ArniEin (talk) 09:31, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank for for explaining this. I'll make the changes.

Done. For now, the rest of the article is a stub. JoeSperrazza (talk) 17:22, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What about the "Solar Compass" noted in the references, and used for Navigation (the one with the gnomic markings, and the spike in the middle). Is there an Icelandic name for this? Is there a Wiki article where this belongs? JoeSperrazza (talk) 15:13, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good job!. And for the solar compass. It has no name in Icelandic. And I don't know if there is an article on Wikipedia but it is actually a wooden thing found during an archaeological excavation in 1948 in the Uunartoq fjord in Greenland and dating to about A.D: 1000. Sören Thirslund has written a book about it, Viking Navigation, published by the Viking Ship Museum in Roskilde (2007). This book was based on an earlier one, The Viking Compass, by him and C.I. Veback (1990) (later translated into English: The Viking Compass, guided Norsemen first to America). The books were based on a theory advanced by Carl V. Solver and Curt Roslund that the wooden thing was a sundial for navigation. The theory is a brilliant one, and shows how someone can navigate along a latitude with a simple instrument like this, given that it is inscribed with the hyperbola characteristic for the shadow of the gnomon for the particular time of the year. There are several artifacts that have been spotted in museums that might have been used like this (one in Reykjavik, dating to the 10th century, spotted by me a couple of years ago!). There are speculations that the Greenland instrument is the "húsasnotra" mentioned in Icelandic medieval literature. Sören Thirslund showed that this kind of instrument worked well at open sea.ArniEin (talk) 23:23, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lede needs work

The lede of this article is a bit too long. Some of the information in the lede is only there, and should be moved to the main body of the article. JoeSperrazza (talk) 16:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done JoeSperrazza (talk) 04:31, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alternate type

I've been unable to find any reference to the "alternate type" of Vegvísir, used with a "thin sunstone", mentioned in the section Vegvísir#Alternate type.

I did find a good reference (see http://www.nordskip.com/navnotes.pdf) to something called a "Horizon Board" that was:

Used together with a Sunstone
Was discussed in the sagas and in the Grágás
Has a layout that is reminiscent of the diagram shown in this article (see Figure 7 in the .pdf)
Looks nothing like the "alternate type" described in this section
Requires a thick piece of Sunstone (the thicker the better, per the reference)

I'm not sure where the original author of this article got the information on this "alternate type", but the "Horizon Board" seems like a type of Sun Compass (which is what the Vegvísir is). See Longship#Navigation for more information on the Horizon Board (with citation of the reference I note). JoeSperrazza (talk) 04:40, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This edit added the text about the alternate type. I'll try posting a note on talk pages of that editor to see if more information about the source can be provided. JoeSperrazza (talk) 04:50, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the comments from ArniEin (talk) here, the issue is moot as it regards this article. JoeSperrazza (talk) 18:56, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See, this is why I hate wikipedia. You can all congratulate yourselves for gutting this article, but there now appears to be no reference in wikiepdia anywhere to the two artifacts which were used for solar navigation which have been found so far. The article on sun compas states the first one was invented in the 19th Century. The result here has been to obfuscate rather than educate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.166.181.194 (talk) 14:17, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]