Talk:Vandal Kingdom

Untitled

Isn't the name of this Kingdom Vandalia? Why is it written as Vandal Kingdom? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jtf2014 (talk • contribs) 03:19, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

This essay really needs work

This entry really needs work. There are many infelicities and inaccuracies.

General Additions

I'm planning on making some additions to the Religion section. I will also make some small edits to other sections. YetAnotherWikipedian (talk) 13:44, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

List of Kings

The same list of kings is given twice on the page - the one in the main body isn't necessary and so should be deleted. YetAnotherWikipedian (talk) 16:39, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Consistent spelling of Genseric

Genseric's name is spelt three ways in on the page. I'll make a note that there are variations on his name but I'll make sure that the main text is consistently using one. YetAnotherWikipedian (talk) 17:56, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Greatest extent

I believe that the map image showing the Vandal Kingdom at its "greatest extent" is misleading, as it does not encompass any part of modern-day Libya. The article on Libya mentions that Libya was "mostly occupied" by the Vandals between the Fall of the Western Roman Empire and the Muslim conquests of the 7th century. DeathTrain (talk) 22:55, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Discussion about the Accuracy of the Map

The map of the Vandal Kingdom in 476 used before it is very simplistic, thus I decided to upload my own. This map was apparently removed because it was assumed inaccurate by Tataryn.

In the article itself it is stated that the vandals gained Numidia and Mauretania after a peace deal with Valentinian III and later gained mainland Tunisia and Tripolitania. the interior populated by Berbers was only lost in 477 following various Berber rebellions, which in turn led to the formation of the eight Christian Berber kingdoms only dissolved in the wake of the Ummayad Caliphate. 

If my map is incorrect I would like some ulterior sources so I can rectify it. (for clarification: I by no means intend to begin an argument and just wish for further clarification in a civil manner.)

@Tataryn Shuaaa2 (talk) 22:36, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Since the map that you uploaded is also unsourced, I think it's better not to have a map until a sourced can be found. M.Bitton (talk) 22:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

ive done more research and so far this is what ive gathered:

Mauretania Tingitania

In Mauretania Tingitania theres not many sources to what happened to its interior following the end of Roman rule in Africa, Tingis though was indeed under Vandal Control: "The Vandals conquered and occupied Tingis around AD 425 before sweeping across the Roman Maghreb. Between 534 and 682, Tingis was restored to Byzantine control." -Tingis Article

Mauretania Caesariensis

The Vandals only had coastal control of Mauretania Caesariensis "extended at times over the coastal regions of Mauretania Caesariensis, Byzacena and parts of Numidia.6 Elsewhere, nominal imperial rule continued, although the precise nature of Vandal relations with the empire have been much disputed." - Vandals, Romans and Berbers by A. H. Merrils

Mauretania Sitifensis, Africa Proconsularis, Byzacena and Numidia

Mauretania Sitifensis and Numidia and after 439 AD Africa Proconsularis and Byzacena were completely under Vandal domination: "The territory controlled by the Vandals may be inferred from a further notice given by Prosper for 437: In Africa, Geiseric, king of the Vandals, wanted to use the Arian impiety to undo the Catholic faith in the regions where he resided. He persecuted some of our bishops, of whom the most famous were Possidius, Novatus, and Severianus, to the extent that he deprived them of their right to the churches and even drove them from their cities, for their steadfastness would not yield to the terrors of that most proud king.29 According to Courtois these three bishops were Possidius of Calama, Novatus of Sitifis and Severianus of Cera.30 Geiseric must thus have controlled the provinces of Mauretania Sitifiensis, Numidia and part of Proconsularis." - Vandals, Romans and Berbers by A. H. Merrils Shuaaa2 (talk) 20:38, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

That's WP:OR and no different from any OR based maps that will ultimately be disputed just like you did for the other one. The article is fine until we a find a properly sourced map for it. M.Bitton (talk) 21:16, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

oh i didnt know abt that, sry Shuaaa2 (talk) 21:18, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

It's very simple: maps, like everything else in Wikipedia mainspace, need to be properly sourced. Replacing an unsourced map with another won't do. M.Bitton (talk) 21:35, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

ive used proper sources though, ive used wikipedia itself and a book which was also used for another map.

book in question: Vandals, Romans and Berbers by A. H. Merrils

another map that uses this https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_depicting_the_Romano-Berber_Kingdoms.png Shuaaa2 (talk) 13:05, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

I've found a map with a direct source here:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:AD_0455_Greatest_extent_of_the_Vandal_Kingdom_EN.svg

296cherry (talk) 16:54, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Britannica also has a map of their own here:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/barbarian-invasions

296cherry (talk) 16:57, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. The first map is unfortunately not properly sourced, but the Britannica map is good. M.Bitton (talk) 17:04, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Added a sourced map (see the image's Commons page). 296cherry (talk) 03:33, 18 December 2023 (UTC)