Talk:Van Howard

Paul A - I re-added the date of death of Van Howard and I was only able to find one article on his obituary from the cemetary who performed the service for Van. Neither the Dallas Morning News or Plano Star Courier had anything that I could find. A Google search did not provide any results. Would you please review my changes and see if they meet the Wikipedia standards for references on his death? Nmantooth (talk) 20:33, 30 July 2013 (UTC)NMantooth

The issue that strikes me about the cemetery's obituary page is that it doesn't actually say that it's about Van Howard. It confirms that there was a person named Clifton Howard Vandevender who died on October 2, 2012, but it doesn't make a connection between that person and the person known as Van Howard who played with Ray Price.

— Paul A (talk) 02:22, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Paul, in the Van Howard Wiki page, it states that Van Howard's real name is Clifton Howard Vandevender. Van Howard was his stage name.

Can you assist me in removing the two warning messages at the top of the page: 1. This article has an unclear citation style. (I'm not sure what needs to be changed) 2. The topic of this article may not meet Wikipedia's notability guideline for biographies (according to the Wiki Criteria for musicians and ensembles, Item #6: "6. Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles." Van played with the Louisiana Hayride which featured notable musicians such as Hank Williams, Red Sovine, Lefty Frizzel, and others. Van also played with Ray Price's Cherokee Cowboys. Other notable musicians that Van played with are detailed on the Early Life and Career section of the Wiki Van Howard page. Do you think this is enough to remove the Wikipedia's notability warning at the top of the page? 3. From time to time, when I access the Van Howard page, I also get a warning about Wiki pages about a living person. When I'm logged into Wikipedia, I don't see the message. Since Van has passed away, can that warning message be deleted? I appreciate your help in resolving these issues and making this page conform to Wikipedia's standards, Nmantooth (talk) 20:41, 2 August 2013 (UTC)NMantooth

Paul, The previous comment about the living persons statement is at the top of the Talk Page. "This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons." Nmantooth (talk) 20:44, 2 August 2013 (UTC)NMantooth

I did understand that you were saying Van Howard was Clifton Howard Vandevender's stage name, but the problem was that you were the only one saying it; all the sources cited in the article talked about either Van Howard or Clifton Vandevender, with none mentioning that they were the same person. I have found and added this morning a published source that confirms that Van Howard was Clifton Howard Vandevender's stage name, so that's no longer an issue.

"Unclear citation style" means that although the article lists some sources that support some of the information in the article, it doesn't make it clear which sources support which bits of information (and which bits of information are as yet unsupported). The usual solution is to use footnotes to show connections with information and sources. There's an example in the article now, where I have used a footnote to show that the book Southwest Shuffle supports the statement that Van Howard's real name was Clifton Howard Vandevender. (Southwest Shuffle actually supports some of the other information in the article, but I didn't add footnotes for those because as written they're mixed in with information it doesn't support. For instance, I couldn't footnote "Since the pay was only $5.00 per week, the talent scout helped Van find a job in a local bank" because Southwest Shuffle supports the statement that Van worked in a local bank to supplement his income while he was in the Louisiana Hayride, but doesn't put a number on his income or say anything about who helped him find the job.)

I think you may be on to something with "member of two or more independently notable ensembles". The only thing is I'm not sure whether the Louisiana Hayride counts as an ensemble for this purpose, given how large and loose its membership was; it might be a good idea to ask the WikiProject Musicians folks what they think.

I've cleared up the living person notices.

— Paul A (talk) 02:54, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Paul, I guess the WikiProject Musicians aren't monitoring their page. I posted a message to them per your request and I haven't seen anything where they answered my questions. Nmantooth (talk) 03:22, 11 August 2013 (UTC)