Talk:Uzunköprü Bridge

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 08:16, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

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• Article history

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The Uzunköprü Bridge in 2008

• ... that the Uzunköprü Bridge (pictured) is claimed to be the world's longest stone bridge? Source: Dünyanın en uzun taş köprüsü tarihi 'Uzunköprü' ilgi bekliyor, Habertürk
  • ALT1: ... that the Uzunköprü Bridge (pictured) was built with stone, after preceding wooden bridges were destroyed by enemies? Source: Uzunköprü (Cisr-i Ergene), p.28, Restorasyon ve Konservasyon Çalışmaları Dergisi
    • ALT1b: ... that the Uzunköprü Bridge (pictured) was built with stone, after preceding wooden bridges were repeatedly destroyed by floods? Source: Uzunköprü (Cisr-i Ergene), p.28, Restorasyon ve Konservasyon Çalışmaları Dergisi
  • ALT2: ... that the Uzunköprü Bridge (pictured) was the longest bridge in the Ottoman Empire and later Turkey for 530 years until 1973, when it was surpassed by the Bosphorus Bridge? Source: Köprüler yaptırdım..., Türkiye
  • Reviewed: L'Œuf électrique
  • Comment: 3,799 to 19,890 bytes gives an expansion of 5.23x. The source for ALT2 was published online in 2000, so that's why at first glance it might look sketchy, but Türkiye is a reliable source. No strong preference on which hook should end up on the main page.

5x expanded by Styyx (talk). Self-nominated at 12:53, 1 June 2022 (UTC).

• Article as 5x expanded in the last 7 days. Article is well-written and cited. QPQ has been completed. Earwigs pings within acceptable limits, but I would recommend rephrasing When it was first completed, the structure was the longest bridge in the Ottoman Empire and later Turkey, a title which it held for 530 years until 1973, when it was surpassed by the Bosphorus Bridge in Istanbul, as it directly lifted from the source. Hooks are cited, interesting, and short enough for DYK, though "by enemies" in ALT1 seems vague; AGF on non-English sources. Morgan695 (talk) 15:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

That sentence was added (without a source) back in 2017 to the article, I simply found a source for it. Regarding the copying, the source says "Additionally, with its 1392m length it had no competitor (fancy way of saying "was the longest") and until the Bosphorus was constructed, it held the record for 530 years." I don't think that that's a direct lift. For ALT1, the source also doesn't specify who those enemies were (and apparantly I used the wrong source). ~Styyx^Talk? 19:57, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

• FYI Morgan695, I've struck ALT1 and added ALT1b instead, which is confirmed by the same source on the same page. ~Styyx^Talk? 16:16, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

"High tides"

The text reads: Occasional high tides at Ergene made the crossings of Ottoman military expeditions into Rumelia difficult. That must be some translation error as this location is nowhere near the coast. Should this perhaps say "floods" instead? Schwede66 09:20, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Schwede66 Not a translation error necessarily; I just need a trip back to geography class. ~Styyx^Talk? 15:58, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Uzunköprü Bridge/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 07:30, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Happy to review the article. AM

Review comments

Lead section / infobox

• Ergene river – link 'River Ergene'.

I don't know if I've interpreted this suggestion correctly. The river was already linked in both the lead and infobox, though I've tweaked both now.

Reversing the words improves the prose, minor point. AM

• Link motifs (Motif (visual arts)).
• The image does not illustrate the structure very well, I would replace it with this image.
• There is information in the lead that does not appear in the main article, and which should: (tr. Long Bridge); The bridge gave its name to the nearby town of Uzunköprü; (In 1971), Uzunköprü was widened to 6.80 metres (22.3 ft).
• several cracks – these appeared 2019, but the text appears to say they were seen in 2021.
• tr. - avoid abbreviations such as this.

Swapped with template.

• Just checking, the Turkish name for the bridge—Uzun Köprü—doesn't match the article title. Is the accepted name in English Uzun Köprü, Uzunköprü Bridge, or simply Uzunköprü? In any case, Turkish: Uzun Köprü should be included in the first sentence.

Usage of Uzun Köprü (two words) is very rare in Turkish. I assume it was done to disambiguate the bridge and the actual town. I don't think a lot of policies and guidelines were present on trwiki back in those days. Mentions of the bridge in English sources seem to be limited, and generally use "Bridge of Uzunköprü" or simply "Uzunköprü". I think the correct title for this article would be as is, or Uzunköpru (bridge).

OK, let's keep the name as it is, most readers will understand perfectly well what is meant. AM

I have not included any copy editing issues (there are some), I'll add these later. More comments to follow. AM

1 Background

• Link Ottoman; tides.
• Murad II – needs introducing, e.g. ‘Sultan Murad II’ (here and in the construction section).
• Gallipoli–Edirne route – unlink Edirne (duplicate link).
• before construction – consider amending this to something like ‘before construction of any new bridge’, for the sake of clarity.
• Murad II ordered a new stone bridge – ‘In 1443, Murad II ordered a new stone bridge’?

Date unknown, certainly not 1443, though.

Apologies, I believe the date should be 1427 (see here, p.464). Amitchell125 (talk) 18:04, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

The date is actually disputed: according to Hoca Sadeddin Efendi construction started in 1426. The 1427 comes from Karaçelebizade Abdülaziz Efendi. Most sources list both dates as equally reliable. Keep in mind the Ottoman Empire was using a completely different calendar back then.

All of what you have said here is relevant for the text, and I would include it in a note. Amitchell125 (talk) 09:47, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Already done.

Missed it!  :) AM

• difficult - 'impossible', surely?

Difficult, it wasn't (and isn't) flooding everytime

Understood. AM

• up from spinose structures – of vegetation’ makes more sense imo, as thorny bushes wouldn’t have been the only plants that needed to be cleared.

Spinose structures were explicitly mentioned by the source. I added "and vegetation"

It's a very morphological phrase, but OK. AM

2.1 Construction and opening

• Link limestone; mortar (Mortar (masonry)); arches (here and in the image caption).
• Duplicate link - Murad II.
• Yağmurca, Eskiköy and Hasırcıarnavut – readers may not be aware that these places are close by, perhaps this should be mentioned.
• bridge legs – as far as I know, bridges don’t have legs. Arches?

Abutment; those are called abutments, apparently. :D

2.2 16th to 20th century

• Duplicate link – Ergene.
• Link dock (presumably Dock); mills (Watermill).

This and above are done.

• The bridge was renamed to Kasr-i Ergene – when was it first called the Uzunköprü Bridge?

Unknown, but at least before 1727, which is why that is mentioned in the article.

Understood. AM

• Consider using this image of the bridge in 1908, showing the mill, perhaps replacing the one in this section, which is relatively unimportant.

Good find. Swapped.

2.3 21st century

• Link tender (presumably Invitation to tender); asphalt (Asphalt concrete, delete and concrete).

Done.

3 Specifications

• Duplicate link - Ottoman Empire.
• Link abutments; motifs (Motif (visual arts)).

4 References

• 'pp' (not p) if there is more than one page cited.
• As the page range for Özkök, Azsöz & Erşan is from 129–142, refs 1/5/7/10/23/25 need to amended (at the moment they go from 6-11).

This and the comment above should be fixed.

• The Bibliography section should list the sources alphabetically, from Kahraman to Yüksel.

Done.

New source

• I would include adding a chapter on the bridge by Büktel (in a new Further reading section, or used as a source):

• Büktel, Yılmaz (2020). "İslâm'a ve Orduya Köprü: Uzunköprü[ A Bridge to Islam and the Army: Uzunkopru]". In İmamoğlu, Abdullah Taha; Rruga, İlir; Soysal, Mehmet Fatih; Bİlİk, Abdurrahim (eds.). Balkanlar ve İslâm – balkanlarda İslâm dİnİ ve kültürel hayat [The Balkans and Islam: Islamic Religious and Cultural Life in the Balkans] (PDF). Vol. 2. Istanbul: Ensar Publications Inc. pp. 461–478. ISBN 978-605-7619-80-8.

I added it as "Further reading" for now. I will go through it later to see if I can expand the article with it.

More comments to follow. AM

Copy editing

I've started checking through the article for issues with the prose, and realised that I will have too many comments if i continue, and will become a significant contributor, something I am not allowed to be. I think there are two ways forward here:

• The article could be listed under Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests and the review is paused until it is copy edited. The article will then pass, but there might be a wait of a couple of months.
• I fail the article so that I can help you with the copy editing. The article is then reviewed by another editor at some future date.

What do you think? Amitchell125 (talk) 20:55, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Oh, OK. I guess I'll take option 2 and fail the nomination. GoCE always took extremely long for me. Styyx (talk) 08:59, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

OK, before we finish this review, please:

• finish sorting out the above comments, which all need to be addressed before the article is re-nominated. I'll cross them out to show they are sorted.  Done
• After I've failed the article, I'll start copy editing. Feel free to message me if I make any accidental errors.
• When the copy editing is done, I'll let you know—there's a Good Article drive this month, so if we can get the work done and you-re-nominate fast enough, the chances are the article will reviewed pretty quickly. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 09:11, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Adding small red crosses (N) to show what is still to be sorted. AM

Amitchell125, I think we had an edit conflict on the article. Styyx (talk) 09:42, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Apologies if I caused it. AM

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.