Talk:Ushant

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Islands

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Requested move to Ushant

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

English name should be used, according to Wikipedia Naming conventions, which states: "Title your pages using the English name, if one exists, and give the native spelling on the first line of the article. If the native spelling is not in the Latin alphabet, also provide a Latin transliteration. Only use the native spelling as an article title if it is more commonly used in English than the anglicized form."

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~~~~

Support. See below. – AxSkov (T) 10:50, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Support English name exists, and so trumps. Septentrionalis 20:27, 11 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per naming convention above UkPaolo 19:06, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Support, I agree, and the indigenous language here is Breton, not French anyway! --MacRusgail 17:59, 16 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Naming

Any reason why the article is called "Île d'Ouessant" and not by its English language name "Ushant"? This is the English language wikipedia after all and not the French language one. --kudz75 01:28, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This should use the English name not the French name, for the same reason as stated above. Therefore I feel it should be moved to "Ushant".

I did a quick Google search for pages in English and found:

20,300 results for Ushant, and

835 results for Île d'Ouessant

– AxSkov (T) 12:52, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I just wanted to comment on the number of hits from Google. Île d'Ouessant sure only finds a few results, but Ouessant alone (virtually nobody says Île d'Ouessant except maybe sometimes in an official context) returns 182 000 results (and 22 000 results for Ushant here). Now, it's normal to have the French name appear more often since it's a French island. It all depends on how often the name Ouessant is used in English and I have no idea of that. If it isn't used as often as Ushant then the article should probably be moved indeed. → SeeSchloß 19:40, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I say Ouessant in English, but I'm not in principle against titling the article Ushant. Further interesting/uninteresting Google results (delete where not applicable) follow:

"Ouessant" 17,100 pages in English v. "Ushant" 19,300 pages in English

"Île d'Ouessant" 747 pages in English v. "Ushant Island" 718 pages in English v. "isle of Ushant" 71 pages in English

"island of Ushant" 351 pages in English v. "island of Ouessant" 587 pages in English v. ""Ouessant island" 816 pages in English

And for the name of the breed of sheep native to the island, Google finds:

"Ouessant sheep" 54 pages in English v. "Ushant sheep" 11 pages in English

I leave other Wikipedians to draw such conclusions as may be drawn, but seeing as Ouessant/Ushant is situated, according to this English language Wikipedia, in Bretagne, I'm disinclined to regard any great principle as being at stake here. Others may feel differently. And of course, Google is no oracle. Man vyi 20:34, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Moved --Henrygb 23:14, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Uxisame/Uxantos/Uxantis?

While reading up on the Journey of Pytheas, I ran across the equation Uxisame/Uxantos/Uxantis = Ouessant/Ushant. The former three names are found in the works of early Greek geographers and historians such as Pliny the Elder, and 19th (and early 20th) century scholars readily supported connecting these to modern-day Ushant. (See, for example: Matthias, Franz (1901). Über Pytheas von Massilia und die ältesten Nachrichten von den Germanen, p. 10. Berlin: W. Pormetter Verlag.) This article is currently ignorant of these connections (whatever their scholarly value today), and it seems to be something interesting enough to warrant further investigation. Cheers, --84.75.164.153 (talk) 11:39, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ouessant being used for modern island outside history contexts

A straight numerical comparison (forgot to take out Trollope, Aiken, WP, LLC) shows Ushant still more prevalent since 1990:

However try it with a tourist term like "ferry" and it is reversed, 173x vs 348x. More surprisingly "pilot" also favours Ouessant, indicating modern shipping uses the French name. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:09, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nom when reached backlog second time. Even though it is only 1 for, 1 against, it's evident that there isn't any great interest in changing as this has been round RM a full 14 days without attracting comment. (non-admin closure). In ictu oculi (talk) 00:26, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ushant → Ouessant – This was moved to the old English spelling in 2005. There's no question that English sources continue to use the old English spelling in reference to four naval battles fought off the coast of Brittany Battle of Ushant (1778), Battle of Ushant (1781), Battle of Ushant (1794), Battle of Ushant (1944) and naturally more books are printed about naval battles than tourism and those articles should retain the English spelling. The old spelling also features in the 1796 sea shanty "Spanish Ladies." However this article isn't about the naval battles, it is about the modern island, and in English source references to the modern island and tourism BBC News - French island of Ouessant adopts local tartan Aug 10, 2010 - "A small island off the Atlantic coast of France adopts its own official tartan to mark its Celtic heritage" the French spelling prevails. Relisted. Favonian (talk) 19:42, 15 September 2013 (UTC). In ictu oculi (talk) 02:31, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The BBC article, located here also says "Ouessant, known as Enez Eusa in Breton and Ushant in English". — AjaxSmack 00:45, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:UE. The English name is still prevalent (see sections above) and there are too many derivatives using "Ushant". many of the sources using "Ouessant" are tour guides that frequently eschew exonyms and use it as Île d'Ouessant (and some then mention that the English name is "Ushant"[1][2]). — AjaxSmack 00:40, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think these sources are merely saying what the nom says, that the name is Ouessant, but traditional name in English, and historical name of the sea battles is Ushant. But anyway, can't see the benefit of this adding further to RM backlog, will withdraw. Thanks Ajax. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:26, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Separate name?

"It is the only place in Brittany with a separate name in English."
This is not true: like many places in Brittany the supposed 'exonym' is actually the name given to the island by Bretons. There are differences between the french and breton names of most of the places in Brittany and Ouessant is not the only example where the english use the breton version instead of the french one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.250.140.7 (talk) 13:46, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I did wonder about this. That declaration is followed by "and Kadoran (Île Cadoran)". However English usage preferring the Breton name is not actually the same as a uniquely English name that is neither Breton nor French. English Ushant is not Breton Eusa is not French Ouessant.

Still, I don't know if the assertion that it is the only place in Brittany with a separate name in English is verifiable as I've not succeeded in finding a reference to confirm it. It would be good if someone could. Calmeilles (talk) 15:51, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

All this predicated on whether or not one genuinely considers an anglicisation of Ouessant to Ushant a separate name. I can't believe I am the first to suggest that the English is a different version of the same name.Optymystic (talk) 12:06, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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