Talk:University of Puerto Rico at Mayagüez
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Quote from an editorial in the lede
[edit]An unregistered editor is insisting that this sentence be included in the lede of this article:
- It has been called "perhaps the top Spanish-language technical university in the world" and graduates more Latina engineers than any other institution.[1]
The cited source is an editorial, not a news article or scholarly analysis. Moreover, it's written by faculty at this university who have a very clear conflict of interest when writing about their own employer. On both counts, this source and the quote do not meet our standards for inclusion in this article. This is particularly true for the lede of the article which is supposed to be a summary of the article and its most important points. ElKevbo (talk) 22:22, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Times Higher Education is a reliable source. The main points, that the university graduates the most Latina engineers and that it is a "top" Spanish-language institution, are important, like material in any lede. While Puerto Ricans are often discriminated against, professors are capable of knowing valid information about their universities and expressing it in a reliable source, as in this case. Statements about prestige generally appear in the lede, so it's unclear what the issue is here.70.116.177.34 (talk) 11:55, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Elkevbo about the conflict of interest. What makes you think this should go in the lede rather than the body? McYeee (talk) 14:50, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- The university actually graduates more Latina and Latino engineers, and they are widely understood as an excellent education for what the USA urgently needs. That is bilingual professionals. This is one of the most important aspects of this university and what is the argument to remove it or move it? Why? Is it because of the mention of Spanish? As in education in Spanish is less important than English? Only important things worth mention happen in English? If that is the reasoning, no. Most of the students there including me don't speak English as a first language. Stating that the university is excellent because it does something excellent, yes. That's very important and should be in the intro.
- I am a graduate of the UPRM but even if I were not, the reality is that the UPRM is notable on a world scale because of the education there. It's not a conflict of interest for anyone to say so. 67.176.131.7 (talk) 16:09, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have any reliable third party sources making the claims you are? The essay Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth seems relevant here. McYeee (talk) 20:08, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure I follow. Are you saying that Times of Higher Ed is not a reliable source? I still do not understand what the argument is about this. Is it about Spanish? If it is, I disagree. It might be bias against Puerto Rico, many people think nothing worthwhile happens there, and there can't possibly be a top university for engineers on the island. 67.176.131.7 (talk) 01:30, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- My objection has nothing to do with the contents of the statement. My objection is that the source is (a) an op-ed (b) written by people who work at the university. An editorial is a poor source for anything but the opinion of the author(s). And these authors work at the university so they have a very clear conflict of interest when writing about their employer. I also object to including information in the lede that is not already discussed at greater length in the body of the article.
- We need a different source for this information, preferably one that is authoritative or scholarly. And if you want to include this in the lede then you need sufficient sources to write about this in more detail in the body of the article. ElKevbo (talk) 01:50, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- The Times Higher Education is a reliable but also a gold standard source, like The New York Times or the Chronicle of Higher Education. Any information in such publications has been extensively fact checked for accuracy. While ignorance about Puerto Rico and discrimination against Puerto Ricans and the Spanish language are common, reliable sources are reliable sources, even when the authors are Puerto Ricans and the information is about Puerto Rico.
- I have confidence in reliable sources and in Puerto Rican academics. It's curious to question what appears in reliable sources and wonder about why extra sources, aside Times Higher Ed, which is scholarly and authoritative, would or should be required for this to be considered valid. But, to be sure, situations like this often occur in relation to Puerto Rico. People who apparently know how to post to wikipedia, if they have doubts about quotes from Puerto Ricans, why not look online about the university for a source from an author who you can trust? 70.116.177.34 (talk) 13:11, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- No one objects on the basis that the author is Puerto Rican. The objections are that the author works for the subject of the article and that regardless of who said it, acclaim based on a single cited source probably does not belong in the lede. Please refrain from casting further aspersions. McYeee (talk) 15:13, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- While the context above about Spanish and Puerto Rico is important, and the source is reliable, in the interest of expanding the scope of the article, please see:
- https://cafethorium.whoi.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2021/01/Ong_DoubleBlindRevisited-1.pdf
- “the five highest producers of Hispanic female STEM bachelor’s degree recipients—University of Puerto Rico Mayaguez, University of Puerto Rico Rio Piedras, Florida International University, and California State University Northridge.”
- https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2015/06/17/report-tracks-latino-stem-graduates
- No one objects on the basis that the author is Puerto Rican. The objections are that the author works for the subject of the article and that regardless of who said it, acclaim based on a single cited source probably does not belong in the lede. Please refrain from casting further aspersions. McYeee (talk) 15:13, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure I follow. Are you saying that Times of Higher Ed is not a reliable source? I still do not understand what the argument is about this. Is it about Spanish? If it is, I disagree. It might be bias against Puerto Rico, many people think nothing worthwhile happens there, and there can't possibly be a top university for engineers on the island. 67.176.131.7 (talk) 01:30, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have any reliable third party sources making the claims you are? The essay Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth seems relevant here. McYeee (talk) 20:08, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Elkevbo about the conflict of interest. What makes you think this should go in the lede rather than the body? McYeee (talk) 14:50, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ Herlihy-Mera, Huyke, Jeffrey, Héctor José (16 October 2024). "The colonial, monolingual model of US HE must be rethought". Times Higher Education, London. Retrieved 16 October 2024.
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