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Hi all, just wanted to talk about the removal of the list of rowers. The boat race is a nationally televised event which highlights the notability of the race. The rowers who have rowed in boat race crews are notable in the Oxford College rowing world and each club that the rowers are associated with is notable too. It makes the most sense to have this information on each individual club's page as is the case for a significant number of other college clubs' pages. Keen to hear your views. Thanks OxfordRowing (talk) 18:47, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I support this change. The proposals add value to the article by highlighting the historic contributions of the club to the University crews, something which no other article covers. (To find which rowers came from University College you would have to trawl through each year individually). For this reason and to contribute more historic details, other College Boat Clubs have the information in their article and University College’s article should be no different. 81.156.2.140 (talk) 21:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm intrigued to see that an IP user with one singular former (vandalism) edit 18 years ago just happens to pop up in two different places today to support your proposed changes OxfordRowing. Please don't engage in WP:SOCK or WP:MEAT puppetry, or you will be blocked from editing. On the issue, it is irrelevant what is in other articles (WP:OSE) and if they contain long lists of non-notable people, that should likely be removed also. (Generally speaking, lists of names in wikipedia articles are of those who are notable enough to have their own wikpedia article). This is precisely the kind of information that belongs on the club's own website, not in an encyclopedia. I do not support the change, and I note its addition here has also been disputed by Tacyarg. Melcous (talk) 23:08, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good morning @Melcous, I think that’s quite an accusation considering that I have no subject knowledge of Leeds and the time when that edit was made I was too young to know what Wikipedia was. I would like to request a cooling of accusations and a return to good faith discussion rather than block threats.
Respectfully, I’m not sure that you have a good background knowledge of rowing and the University of Oxford. (Both of which are Wikiprojects to improve). These people are very notable. That is why there are pages with every boat race crew from Cambridge going back years regardless of if the individual goes on to do something else that is notable in a different world. The very act of them having participated in the Boat Race is a sufficient condition for notability in both of those worlds. The inclusion on college pages therefore makes sense (once again this is the case across college pages at both Oxford and Cambridge - I understand your opposition to this argument but it shows wider consensus that these people are notable), notability is a relative concept and these people are very notable in the worlds of the sport of Rowing and Oxford. OxfordRowing (talk) 07:15, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OxfordRowing, Notability on wikipedia is not a relative concept, it has clear guidelines. Unless these people meet those (as demonstrated by reliable sources and usually by having an article here) they should not be included. Participating in university rowing does not meet this standard. See WP:NCOLLATH, which suggest things like having won a national award or gained national attention as an individual, not just as a member of a team. See also WP:NTEAM which explicitly says the notability of an athlete does not imply the notability of a team or club, or vice versa. Melcous (talk) 07:51, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good morning. That page refers towards the notability requirements to create an article for a sports related individual. I am not trying to claim that each individual on there deserves an article in their own right. I am also not trying to create any article at all. I am taking about the fact that this information is noteworthy enough in these worlds that someone looking at an encyclopaedia article about this club would reasonably be seeking this information.
OxfordRowing, yes I agree WP:NCOLLATH does seem to have been written from an American perspective, and I am not aware of any specific guideline for British sports in general or for rowing in particular, but the same principles would apply. Melcous (talk) 08:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From further familiarisation with the topics raised this entire conversation hinges on WP:Note. In all information both on its own article and in the article about sports that you raised earlier the discussion is about article creation and deletion. I haven’t found anywhere where it refers to content within an article. The policy I would refer to for that would be WP:Scope. This information certainly falls within the scope of the article and is well referenced. While notability does still come into scope it is not in the way you are referring. If you look at WP:Note and scroll to the section ‘Notability guidelines does not apply to content within articles’ you will see that there isn’t a set criteria and is more about due weight and balance. For this reason I continue to believe that this information is notable in relation to this article, falls within the scope and should be included. OxfordRowing (talk) 10:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
