Talk:United States at the 2014 Winter Olympics

Speed skating

I reverted to organization by name because all other sports are listed by name. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:17, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

That's not correct. First, we don't have the roster for just about any other sport. Second, for what we do have (luge), it's listed first by event, and then within event by name. So the only other sport that's in a comparable condition thus far is actually done in the format to which I reverted speedskating. Next, you didn't revert; you altered it from the original format of organization. It's an important distinction. When you write that you "reverted" it gives the incorrect impression that it was organized according to your preferred format at the beginning, and you merely restored it to a consensus for your view. The opposite is actually the case. Originally, it was being organized by event before you changed it. On a procedural level, I think wholescale changes to the consensus organization should be preceded by discussion. It's not as if you imposed organization on an unorganized section. Rather, you replaced one organization format that others prefer to another format that you prefer. On a substantive level, there are several good reasons for ordered first by event, and then within each event by name. First, that's the format used for every sport (including speedskating) in the 2010 U.S. article, except for alpine skiing. I don't think we should have that inconsistency within 2010, but the point is that ordering by event is effectively the status quo. Your ordering by name would be inconsistent with that practice. Second, the main purpose of this article (and its counterparts) is to inform readers on a nation's performance at the Games. Thus, I think priority should be given to quickly conveying how the U.S. as a whole did in an event (e.g. the 500m) rather than giving priority to how an individual did (e.g., Brittany Bowe) at the expense of making it harder to find the performances of all U.S. 500m skaters together. The third reason is linked to the second. There's already an article that should conveniently prioritizes showing an individual athletes performances together. That's the athlete's bio article. So if we subsume organization by event under organization by name, we are duplicating that aim in two articles while eliminating the one place to very conveniently see all a nation's performances in one event right next to each other. Finally, the existing order only slightly inconveniences its secondary objective (finding results for each athlete), while you ordering greatly incoveniences its secondary objective (finding results by each event). In other words, if we organize first by event, it's still not very hard to find all the performances by an individual speedskater. That's because multiple event speedskaters double or triple in neighboring distances like 500m and 1000m, rather than 500m and 5000m). Names are stick out. In contrast, there's no correlation between alphabetizing and the events once competes in. So if we organize by name first, readers have to go all the way from the top of the table (Bowe) to the bottom (Todd) to group the various 500m performances in their head. On top of that, the distances tend to blend together in ways that names visually don't. I know this is wordy, but I want to make it clear that to me there are many good reasons that the editors have chosen to organize things this way. --JamesAM (talk) 18:00, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for thoroughly explaining everything James. I would also like to reference the other recent multi-sport events pages for the United States (2012 Summer, 2008 Summer, 2011 Pan Ams) to reinforce that, by and large, organization by name within event is the norm. Torlek (talk) 00:02, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

And also it is part of the rules at Wikiproject Olympics [1] Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 03:35, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I just want to clarify who is agreeing with what. Sportsfan1234 seems to be agreeing with Torlek by starting, "And also . . ." But the pages linked to by Torlek are consistent with my position (the original ordering in this article, which is the status quo as of now). In other words, I agree with alphabetizing within an event. Thus, the 500m women are listed in order of Bowe, Cholewinski, Richardson, and Todd. But it's just alphabetizing within each "event" (e.g. 500m), not alphabetizing all the competitors in each "sport" (e.g. long track speed skating) regardless of event. I support ordering speed skating by event (shortest to longest distance), and only within each distance by name. So Maria Lamb is last in the women's table, because she's the only one in the longest distance. She doesn't go in the middle of the table. That's consistent with how the articles linked by Torlek do it. The subsection linked by Sportsfan doesn't say that competitors within an event should be split up in a sport's table to make last name the first criterion for ordering. It is true, however, that further up in that linked Manual of Style page, there's a sample of swimmer Rebecca Adlington from Great Britain at the 2008 Summer Olympics that has her two events together. But that seems to be exception for swimming rather than the general practice. In most other sports, like athletics, boxing, or judo, the tables at Great Britain at the 2008 Summer Olympics are organizing first by event, and then alphabetically within the event (not within the whole sport). The same is true for the U.S. article which is mentioned on the Talk page to that Manual of Style section. --JamesAM (talk) 05:08, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Also, I think the third paragraph from the main Wikipedia:Manual of Style page is relevant: "Style and formatting choices should be consistent within an article, though not necessarily throughout Wikipedia as a whole. Where more than one style is acceptable, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a substantial reason. Edit warring over optional styles is unacceptable.[1] If discussion cannot determine which style to use in an article, defer to the style used by the first major contributor." So if the formatting dispute exists, it would be a good idea to discuss the differing options and make sure everybody is aware of the discussion. But my opinion is that we should defer to this existing style (which has several reasons behind it) unless substantial reasons are presented to change that. --JamesAM (talk) 05:15, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

I've started a discussion regarding this question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Olympics/Manual of Style (Games summary – Nations). Hopefully we can get some more people from the Olympics project involved and come to a consensus. Torlek (talk) 00:01, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Speedskating results

Should be something about the unexpected lack of medals[2]... AnonMoos (talk) 17:00, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Multiple medalist

Meryl Davis & Charlie White are multiple medalists having won Gold and part of the four couples Team Trophy (bronze). The section on multiple medalists has not been included yet. Is there a protocal that I don;t understand? Pacomartin (talk) 05:42, 22 February 2014 (UTC)